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Adjusting NIS bindings?



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 10th 11, 12:37 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
Morris Keesan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Adjusting NIS bindings?

My new skis, bought near the end of last season and skied on only once
(still waiting for sufficient snow here in the northeast), have these
new-fangled "NIS" NNN bindings, which can be user-adjusted, to move the
bindings forward or backward on the skis. I got these, instead of more
conventional bindings, because that's what was available, and my old
skis were desperately in need of replacing. The salesperson couldn't
provide much help in explaining when I would want to move the bindings,
and a web search hasn't come up with anything that I find helpful.

Does anyone have any experience with this kind of binding, and any
advice on what I should be paying attention to in order to determine
whether the bindings are in the right place?

It's hard for me to determine what variables are responsible for what
facets of performance here, since these skis are almost 30 years newer
than my old skis, and I'm switching from my dependable old 3-pin bindings
to new NNN bindings. Also, the new skis are noticeably stiffer than the
old skis, and I have a feeling that it will take me a bit of time to figure
out how to wax them properly. The one time I've been out on them I was
having some trouble with my kick, but it was rather warm and I was having
trouble finding the right level of red wax for the day.

I'm a purely recreational skier; I've never raced in my life.

--
Morris Keesan --
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  #2  
Old January 10th 11, 03:37 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 557
Default Adjusting NIS bindings?

Morris - While there may be some general guidelines that someone else
can speak to, from my experience with NIS it's a matter of personal
preference, what feels best generally and in specific conditions. That
will take some experience and assumes good technique. That said, the
main position or one click back is a good place to start. There should
be some x-c ski high end shops around the Boston area or a bit north
or west to ask, as well as learn more about waxing. Do a google search
for cross country ski shops in your region. For more about waxing, see
http://www.a2skiclub.org/nordicski.htm and www.xcskiworld.com.

What concerns me most from your description is how you ended up with
these skis. If the store staff doesn't know about using NIS, that
suggests you got them from somewhere that doesn't specialize (e.g.,
REI). And if they don't know about NIS, then they probably don't know
how to fit skis properly to your weight, age, ability and needs. So
when I hear about your kick problems, it could be the day's conditions
were simply too warm for kick wax (vs. using klister), and/or the skis
are too stiff, i.e., not flexible enough, for you to get good purchase.
If the latter, I'd take them back. But first, get more info: visit a
real x-c ski shop(s) to get their opinion.

Gene


On Sun, 09 Jan 2011 20:37:23 -0500
"Morris Keesan" wrote:

My new skis, bought near the end of last season and skied on only
once (still waiting for sufficient snow here in the northeast), have
these new-fangled "NIS" NNN bindings, which can be user-adjusted, to
move the bindings forward or backward on the skis. I got these,
instead of more conventional bindings, because that's what was
available, and my old skis were desperately in need of replacing.
The salesperson couldn't provide much help in explaining when I would
want to move the bindings, and a web search hasn't come up with
anything that I find helpful.

Does anyone have any experience with this kind of binding, and
any advice on what I should be paying attention to in order to
determine whether the bindings are in the right place?

It's hard for me to determine what variables are responsible for
what facets of performance here, since these skis are almost 30 years
newer than my old skis, and I'm switching from my dependable old
3-pin bindings to new NNN bindings. Also, the new skis are
noticeably stiffer than the old skis, and I have a feeling that it
will take me a bit of time to figure out how to wax them properly.
The one time I've been out on them I was having some trouble with my
kick, but it was rather warm and I was having trouble finding the
right level of red wax for the day.

I'm a purely recreational skier; I've never raced in my life.

--
Morris Keesan --

  #3  
Old January 10th 11, 06:56 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
Terje Mathisen[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 173
Default Adjusting NIS bindings?

wrote:

What concerns me most from your description is how you ended up with
these skis. If the store staff doesn't know about using NIS, that
suggests you got them from somewhere that doesn't specialize (e.g.,
REI). And if they don't know about NIS, then they probably don't know
how to fit skis properly to your weight, age, ability and needs. So


Exactly, this was rather scary reading!

when I hear about your kick problems, it could be the day's conditions
were simply too warm for kick wax (vs. using klister), and/or the skis
are too stiff, i.e., not flexible enough, for you to get good purchase.
If the latter, I'd take them back. But first, get more info: visit a
real x-c ski shop(s) to get their opinion.


The real problem is that even if the store had gear to check/test
stiffness vs skier weight, they would almost certainly end up with far
too stiff skis for a purely recreational skier!

It takes _year_ of training to learn the technique required to be able
to ski on "properly fitted" competition classic skis!

Terje

Gene


On Sun, 09 Jan 2011 20:37:23 -0500
"Morris wrote:

My new skis, bought near the end of last season and skied on only
once (still waiting for sufficient snow here in the northeast), have
these new-fangled "NIS" NNN bindings, which can be user-adjusted, to
move the bindings forward or backward on the skis. I got these,
instead of more conventional bindings, because that's what was
available, and my old skis were desperately in need of replacing.
The salesperson couldn't provide much help in explaining when I would
want to move the bindings, and a web search hasn't come up with
anything that I find helpful.

Does anyone have any experience with this kind of binding, and
any advice on what I should be paying attention to in order to
determine whether the bindings are in the right place?

It's hard for me to determine what variables are responsible for
what facets of performance here, since these skis are almost 30 years
newer than my old skis, and I'm switching from my dependable old
3-pin bindings to new NNN bindings. Also, the new skis are
noticeably stiffer than the old skis, and I have a feeling that it
will take me a bit of time to figure out how to wax them properly.
The one time I've been out on them I was having some trouble with my
kick, but it was rather warm and I was having trouble finding the
right level of red wax for the day.

I'm a purely recreational skier; I've never raced in my life.

--
Morris Keesan --



--
- Terje.Mathisen at tmsw.no
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"
  #4  
Old January 10th 11, 08:15 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 557
Default Adjusting NIS bindings?

On Mon, 10 Jan 2011 08:56:15 +0100
Terje Mathisen "terje.mathisen at tmsw.no" wrote:

when I hear about your kick problems, it could be the day's
conditions were simply too warm for kick wax (vs. using klister),
and/or the skis are too stiff, i.e., not flexible enough, for you
to get good purchase. If the latter, I'd take them back. But
first, get more info: visit a real x-c ski shop(s) to get their
opinion.


The real problem is that even if the store had gear to check/test
stiffness vs skier weight, they would almost certainly end up with
far too stiff skis for a purely recreational skier!

It takes _year_ of training to learn the technique required to be
able to ski on "properly fitted" competition classic skis!


How right you are. And it seems to take years of training to come up
with "properly fitted" (soft finishing) competition skis! After 17
years, I recently finally found a pair that actually fits me.
Ironically, they came not from a shop, but from the Madshus factory in
Norway via a former local college team member from there (btw, he still
has a pair of excellent NIS skates, 78-85kg, but they don't come
cheap). The irony is they felt right in my hands, and later on snow,
but on the bench they flexed soft for an 80kg skier, and I haven't come
close to that yet this season.

Gene
  #5  
Old February 26th 11, 12:14 AM posted to rec.skiing.nordic
Morris Keesan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Adjusting NIS bindings?

On Sun, 09 Jan 2011 20:37:23 -0500, Morris Keesan
wrote:

Answering my own question, after discussing the issue with a different
salesperson at the same store where I bought the skis (while I was in
buying a second pair of the same ski [except that the second pair is
waxless]): Adjustment of the NIS bindings is extremely unlikely to have
had anything to do with kick problems. The suggestion is that I might
want to move the bindings forward one click for very hard snow, in order
to put more weight on the tips for better turning, and back one click from
the neutral position for very soft snow, to get weight OFF the tips.
As an experiment, this morning while skiing on freshly-falling powder
which hadn't yet been groomed, I moved the bindings back one position
after about an hour, and honestly, I couldn't tell the difference: I might
have been getting marginally-better glide, but I couldn't be sure. Since
I don't care at all about tiny differences in speed, my conclusion is that
I shouldn't worry about the issue at all. In soft snow, I *expect* to go
slower, and in hard snow when it's difficult to control turns, my reaction
is to slow down, use a wider wedge and more edge.

gene wrote:
What concerns me most from your description is how you ended up with
these skis. If the store staff doesn't know about using NIS, that
suggests you got them from somewhere that doesn't specialize (e.g.,
REI). And if they don't know about NIS, then they probably don't know
how to fit skis properly to your weight, age, ability and needs. So
when I hear about your kick problems, it could be the day's conditions
were simply too warm for kick wax (vs. using klister), and/or the skis
are too stiff, i.e., not flexible enough, for you to get good purchase.
If the latter, I'd take them back. But first, get more info: visit a
real x-c ski shop(s) to get their opinion.


I chose the skis after skiing on several different pairs from a few
different manufacturers, at a demo day, and bought them a few weeks later
from a store that does specialize in XC (except in the summer, when they
sell bicycles). I chose the particular pair over a slightly-differently-
flexed (as measured by the store on their flex tester) same-sized pair,
after a fair amount of discussion. The issue with NIS adjustment was that
the salesperson who sold me the first (waxable) pair just wasn't good at
explaining. After talking with the second salesperson last month, I
realized that the first person had been trying to explain the same thing.

The kick problems last spring were simply a matter of having trouble
finding
the right wax; with blue hard wax at 20F, the skis are a dream. The day
in question was definitely not a klister day: the snow was newly-fallen,
with the temperature hovering around freezing and slightly above. My
problem was being a little too conservative, not wanting to wax too warm,
so I started out with some kind of violet, and (too) gradually moved up
through violets and into reds. On any other day like that, I would have
said the hell with it, and switched to waxless, but I was being stubbornly
persistent because I really wanted to use my new skis.
--
Morris Keesan --
 




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