technology changes?

Hi, I have a couple of questions about ski technology over the passed
20 years or so.

I used to be really into skiing, but after a bad fall and a knee
injury, drifted away. Now my kids are old enough to learn, and i've
been several times, and i've kind of gotten the bug again.

but i've been skiiing on my old fischer C4's, 210's. Love those
boards, but they certainly aren't intended for shuffling around the
beginner hill, and are
putting undo strain on my bad knee.

stopped by my fav local shop, and they gave me a set of dynastar agyls
to borrow for a week. 170s. Very nice little ski, i had some fun with
them
when i took a few runs, turned nice and easy but seemed to hold on ice
ok
(I am in Massachusetts).

so i know i want to buy something. But now i'm lost. I had heard
about
"parabolic" skis, which now seems like a dead term? but looking around
the ski shop, there's certainly no long boards anymore. And there's a
ton of
super-wide skis.

what i want is something around a 170 that will perform for me, when
i'm not teaching my kids i'm a GS type skier. Does this exist?

I'm also skiing in my old Lange XRIs. They're a nice boot once on,
but are murder to get on and off. I tried on a Nordica Enforcer and
loved it, but the price seems steep. Not sure if I'll spend the money
or just
try to live with the langes for awhile.

wrote:
Hi, I have a couple of questions about ski technology over the passed
20 years or so.

I used to be really into skiing, but after a bad fall and a knee
injury, drifted away. Now my kids are old enough to learn, and i've
been several times, and i've kind of gotten the bug again.

but i've been skiiing on my old fischer C4's, 210's. Love those
boards, but they certainly aren't intended for shuffling around the
beginner hill, and are
putting undo strain on my bad knee.

stopped by my fav local shop, and they gave me a set of dynastar agyls
to borrow for a week. 170s. Very nice little ski, i had some fun with
them
when i took a few runs, turned nice and easy but seemed to hold on ice
ok
(I am in Massachusetts).

so i know i want to buy something. But now i'm lost. I had heard
about
"parabolic" skis, which now seems like a dead term? but looking around
the ski shop, there's certainly no long boards anymore. And there's a
ton of
super-wide skis.

what i want is something around a 170 that will perform for me, when
i'm not teaching my kids i'm a GS type skier. Does this exist?

I'm also skiing in my old Lange XRIs. They're a nice boot once on,
but are murder to get on and off. I tried on a Nordica Enforcer and
loved it, but the price seems steep. Not sure if I'll spend the money
or just
try to live with the langes for awhile.

How much do you plan to ski?

$35 (avg. price of 'performance' rentals
or demo skis).

times

20 days of skiing

equals

$700

Which with bindings is quite a bit less
than the going retail price of skis these days.

Or, another way.

Try the demos at an off-hill shop.

It's late enough in the year so that the
shop will probably be happy selling you
the demo skis (w/binding) at somewhere
around half off after you've tried them.
The caveat here is to determine how much
use these skis have had through the winter.
The trick is to see how much the p-tex has
been repaired and how much edge is left to
grind (the latter can be determined by
comparing the demo skis with a new pair on
the rack.

Boots:
Don't cheap out here.

It's a bit difficult to demo boots, but
it can be done. The trouble here is that
boot performance is strongly tied up
with comfort. In other words, if your
feet are killing you, the boots won't
perform.

So, maybe you need to take a jump with
the advice of a GOOD bootfitter. Also,
for recreational skiing today, don't
go with the stiffest gnarliest racing
boot available, but do select stiffness
in relation to your size and weight.

Then, get the boots fitted correctly
and expect to spend some time to do this.
Initially if you haven't spent 2 hours
with the bootfitter, you probably won't
have a good fit.

Then, and since I recommend buying boots
near the mountain you regularly ski, plan
to spend a couple of happy-hours at the
shop instead of the bar.

Get the boots right this year. Then, if
you don't get skis 'til next year, don't
worry about it.

Oh, and if your new boots have almost to
exactly the same sole length as your old
boots, don't hesitate to take your old
boots along in case the new ones need tweaking.

As for your bad knee, in spite of rumors
to the contrary, the newer style skis don't
demand as much as the old long boards.
Take a lesson or two on the new style skis
and see how much easier they make skiing.

One more point, if your boots are 20 years
old (or older) as you imply, I might suggest
that they may be suffering from plastic fatigue
which comes from heat (storing in an attic)
and/or exposure to UV light. Happened to me,
but that's another story.

Be careful here, you may find yourself
walking down the hill in your boot liners.

On Feb 20, 6:05*am, "
wrote:
Hi, I have a couple of questions about ski technology over the passed
20 years or so.

I used to be really into skiing, but after a bad fall and a knee
injury, drifted away. Now my kids are old enough to learn, and i've
been several times, and i've kind of gotten the bug again.

but i've been skiiing on my old fischer C4's, 210's. Love those
boards, but they certainly aren't intended for shuffling around the
beginner hill, and are
putting undo strain on my bad knee.

stopped by my fav local shop, and they gave me a set of dynastar agyls
to borrow for a week. 170s. Very nice little ski, i had some fun with
them
when i took a few runs, turned nice and easy but seemed to hold on ice
ok
(I am in Massachusetts).

so i know i want to buy something. But now i'm lost. I had heard
about
"parabolic" skis, which now seems like a dead term? but looking around
the ski shop, there's certainly no long boards anymore. And there's a
ton of
super-wide skis.

what i want is something around a 170 that will perform for me, when
i'm not teaching my kids i'm a GS type skier. Does this exist?

I'm also skiing in my old Lange XRIs. They're a nice boot once on,
but are murder to get on and off. I tried on a Nordica Enforcer and
loved it, but the price seems steep. Not sure if I'll spend the money
or just
try to live with the langes for awhile.

While the trend these days is shorter skis, mainly because they are
easier to turn. But if you are used to the old 210's and are a big
guy, buy the longest model of whatever ski you choose. Every time
I've tried shorter skis, I have been disapointed unless I've used the
longest length of that model. Even these days, I would not consider a
ski under 190 cm. I'm 6'2" 220. Just don't let some idiot sales
person push you onto 160's.

wrote:
Hi, I have a couple of questions about ski technology over the passed
20 years or so.

Ok I'll try to answer them.


so i know i want to buy something. But now i'm lost. I had heard
about "parabolic" skis, which now seems like a dead term?

About a decade ago there was a revolution in ski design. Skis with wide
shovels and tails started appearing - various terms were used to
describe the new skis: "Parabolic" was a marketing term used by Elan to
describe their early offerings and since they were the first to market
that term became widely used. Other terms were "hourglass" "super
sidecut" and "shaped". Since virtually all skis made today have the
wide tips and tails, these terms are mostly obsolete. They're just
called "skis".

The point of the new shaped skis is that they have a much shorter
turning radius than the older "straight" skis like your Fischer 210s.
Tip a shaped ski up onto it's edge and note that the edge makes a curve
on the snow. If the ski follows that curve without slipping it'll move
through a circular arc - for most modern skis that circle will have a
radius somewhere around 15 meters.

Note that the old skis weren't actually straight; there was some flaring
at the tips and tails, but not as pronounced as todays skis. If you
tipped them on edge like the shaped ski above you'd also see a curve and
an arc, but it was much larger, something like 50 meters.

So to make a long story short, the new gear is meant to be skied on it's
edge and you turn by tipping the ski on it's edge and following the ~15
meter curve. Yeah, there's much more to it than that (and there's more
than one way to turn), but this is the big change since the days of your
beloved 210s. Skis are shorter and much more turny.

but looking around the ski shop, there's certainly no long boards anymore.
And there's a ton of super-wide skis.

Everybody is going wide - part of that is just trendoids keeping up with
the trends, part of it is that wider skis really do work better in soft
snow conditions, and part of it is that the engineers have figured out
how to make a wide ski that grips well on the firm, making wide boards
more versatile.

Is wide for you? Maybe. But it sounds like you'll be perfectly happy
on a narrow waisted ski.

what i want is something around a 170 that will perform for me, when
i'm not teaching my kids i'm a GS type skier. Does this exist?

Yeah, dozens if not hundreds of models. Your problem is not finding
something that fits that description, but rather figuring out which
model to buy.

I'm also skiing in my old Lange XRIs. They're a nice boot once on,
but are murder to get on and off. I tried on a Nordica Enforcer and
loved it, but the price seems steep. Not sure if I'll spend the money
or just try to live with the langes for awhile.

Boots are the most important piece of gear by a long ways. If your
boots don't fit precisely, your skiing will be sloppy. If they're so
tight that they hurt, your experinece will suffer as well. The usual
advice is "buy boots first"

One question: are you leaving your boots in the car and trying to put
them on while they're cold?

//Walt

wrote:

While the trend these days is shorter skis, mainly because they are
easier to turn. But if you are used to the old 210's and are a big
guy, buy the longest model of whatever ski you choose. Every time
I've tried shorter skis, I have been disapointed unless I've used the
longest length of that model. Even these days, I would not consider a
ski under 190 cm. I'm 6'2" 220.

Note that this is a minority opinion. There are a few people who still
like long skis, and while there's nothing wrong with that (who am I to
tell someone what they like) the overwhelming choice of most skiers is
in the 160 to 180 range.

The guy I ski with regularly is 6'5" and around 250. When he came back
to skiing a decade ago after a two decade absence he bought the longest
skis available. Now he's on 168cm skis and thinks they're great.

Just don't let some idiot sales person push you onto 160's.

Don't let some idiot sales person push you onto *anything* you haven't
tried first. Demo demo demo.

BTW, it's OK to let some idiot demo guy push you onto 160s. It doesn't
hurt to try different sizes and see what you like. There is no magic
number.

//Walt

thanks for the great replies! i really appreciate it.

i am 5'11'' and 185 lbs. My old boots are stiff but not uncomfortable
- issue is mainly getting them on and
off. This is not trivial, as its such a struggle to remove them that
my sore knee is taking more abuse during
this.

I do have a great bootfitter in town, and i used to work at his shop
part-time. I believe that he'd work
with me even if i buy a used boot on ebay or elsewhere, and so I am
keeping my eyes open for a great
price on a used boot that matches what i tried on at the shop.

I like the idea to demo more skis. I think this is what i'lll do, at
least for the remained of this season.
thanks!

wrote:
thanks for the great replies! i really appreciate it.

i am 5'11'' and 185 lbs. My old boots are stiff but not uncomfortable
- issue is mainly getting them on and
off. This is not trivial, as its such a struggle to remove them that
my sore knee is taking more abuse during
this.

I do have a great bootfitter in town, and i used to work at his shop
part-time. I believe that he'd work
with me even if i buy a used boot on ebay or elsewhere, and so I am
keeping my eyes open for a great
price on a used boot that matches what i tried on at the shop.

I like the idea to demo more skis. I think this is what i'lll do, at
least for the remained of this season.
thanks!

I'm 6'1" and just under 16 st (I'm working on it Horvath it I was 17 st
this time last year) and I ski on 165 or 168 skis (except for GS where the
rules say I have to use longer skis)
Make sure you try shorter skis the longer ones will just make life harder
work.


--

Chris *:-)

wrote:
thanks for the great replies! i really appreciate it.

i am 5'11'' and 185 lbs. My old boots are stiff but not uncomfortable
- issue is mainly getting them on and
off. This is not trivial, as its such a struggle to remove them that
my sore knee is taking more abuse during
this.

Have you tried letting the boots warm up inside before taking them off?
If nothing else, it's a great excuse for having a pint at the bar...

I do have a great bootfitter in town, and i used to work at his shop
part-time. I believe that he'd work
with me even if i buy a used boot on ebay or elsewhere, and so I am
keeping my eyes open for a great
price on a used boot that matches what i tried on at the shop.

If he'll work with you on these terms, great. But be up front about it
- merchants tend to take a dim view of customers who use their stock for
trying on and then buy over the internet.

Used boots can work out if they're gently used - OTOH, if they've been
skied hard they'll be packed out to someone else's foot shape and won't
fit you so well.



I like the idea to demo more skis. I think this is what i'lll do, at
least for the remained of this season.

Don't be in a hurry to buy skis. Or if you are, buy a used pair for
cheap on Ebay with the intention of skiing on them for a year and then
selling them for approx what you paid. You should be able find a pair
of Agyls for instance for under $200.

//Walt

wrote:
thanks for the great replies! i really appreciate it.

i am 5'11'' and 185 lbs. My old boots are stiff but not uncomfortable
- issue is mainly getting them on and
off. This is not trivial, as its such a struggle to remove them that
my sore knee is taking more abuse during
this.

I do have a great bootfitter in town, and i used to work at his shop
part-time. I believe that he'd work
with me even if i buy a used boot on ebay or elsewhere, and so I am
keeping my eyes open for a great
price on a used boot that matches what i tried on at the shop.

Used boots are OK, but the best place to get
them is at a ski swap where you can actually
try them on. I've mail ordered boots before.
Had good luck with some, really bad luck with
others. The good luck ones were some I actually
knew the fit was right, and they had heat fit
liners which I took to my local friendly
bootfitter.

I like the idea to demo more skis. I think this is what i'lll do, at
least for the remained of this season.
thanks!

wrote:

I do have a great bootfitter in town, and i used to work at his shop
part-time. I believe that he'd work
with me even if i buy a used boot on ebay or elsewhere ...

First, if you used to work in boot sales, you should know how to fit and
adjust your own boots.

Second, if you do buy ebay boots or the like and expect this "great
bootfitter" to help you fit the boots, I hope he charges both arms and a
leg.