my second day of skiing :)

foot2foot wrote:
"lal_truckee" wrote in message

We're talking about what it takes to ski powder - you CAN'T skid in
powder; the medium won't let you (unless you're on a snowboard or those
wannabe snowboard wide skis, so wide they don't ever penetrate the powder,
in which case what's the point?)


Yes, but this is all relative. If I put you on 140's, you wouldn't be
all that good in the powder.

If you have skis enough to float you, you don't need any of
the up down stuff of any kind. All you need to do is stand with
the legs half bent all the time and steer the legs from the hip socket.

Yeah - I noticed that when I demoed the original Fat Boys about 15 years
ago - and returned them as pointless to me. And equally returned all
subsequent wide skis that I've demoed as pointless to me.

I think you ignored my remark about the pointlessness of skiing powder
on boards that stay on the surface. So again: what's the point of such skis?



We're not talking about what it takes to ski a half pipe - who cares.


So, define "carve" for me, could you? This will open up another
whole can of worms, but, so what? There's nothing else going
on in here. You said that you *can't* do these things without
carving. What exactly does that mean? I don't think you're
speaking of the same thing that the "euro carvers" call a carve.

What's a euro carver?

"foot2foot" wrote

You're well crossed over,

Crossed over?

nice angulation, nice flexion and
extension if not even a pretty strong up unweight. Not a bad
idea at all to get used to doing that, though you might not need
as much *HUP* as you were getting. Both skis coming off the
snow maybe six inches or more. Too darn much work that.

After snowboarding skiing that greenish slope seemed like a
walk in the park to me. I don't think that my pulse ever got over
80 that day.

Probably because I just don't know better than to almost
straightline But straightlining that thing on a board is
a pretty demanding excercise (trashed my board doing
just that - landed too far back after jumping that berm in the
middle and the edge gave up on me).

I'll use your advise to _finish_ my turns next time, probably
will get the speed down and pulse up.

I did notice what I would describe as hands flailing around,
getting behind you, etc. Every time your hands go out of
position, your balance disappears.

Probably the other way around. First the balance goes away,
than hands try to compensate. I'll try skiing holding both poles
together in front of me next time..

[some more advice skipped]

Then, to complement that nice flex and extend you have,
as you sink at the end of the turn, give both legs a twist
from the hip socket, in the direction of the turn, so that the
knees, acting together, point more toward the center of the turn.
Steer at the end of the turn in other words. Then, extend and
crossover and start another.

I don't get this part. Steer at the end of the turn where?

The rest of it sounds like a plan. Get the turns completed,
get forward, go try steeper terrain. Probably poles will
come into play big time on steeper slope. Thank you.

"Armin" wrote

Only your second day on skis... ever? I'd say you're doing really good,
Dmitry. Hopping a bit to much, but all in all you're doing well.

Well, we had what's called nordic skiing here as a mandatory school
excersise when I was 6-8 years old back in Russia. Wooden skis wigh
cable bindings, leather ski boots, fur hats and all Also I was a
competitive figure skater back in the day.

One thing you might want to try to get more of a feel for the skis and
to help eliminate some of the hopping is to make sure your weight is on
the balls of your feet and then try "rolling" your knees from side to
side. Do it slowly and give the ski time to react. This will put the
skis on edge and make them turn all on their own without the need to
hop up and down. Do it on a somewhat gentle slope where you have time
to let the skis work without having to worry getting going too fast.

I didn't hop I swear! It's the skis! But it felt pretty good so I kept
doing it, now I just need to learn to channel that energy towards
something useful.

Learning to ski is so much easier simply because there are _a lot_
more excellent skiers out there to look up to than snowboarders. I
hardly ever see a freeriding snowboarder that I can learn anything
from, and I'm only doing that for two and a half years.

"lal_truckee" wrote

if I absolutely don't care about carving and more interested in
doing steeps, moguls, powder, half-pipe (in that order),

In order to do steeps, moguls, powder, you need to be able to carve your
skis - the tails have to follow the tips or you're screwed.

"Carving" is mentioned here not as a technique, but as an activity.

Carving as an activity is defined as searching for smooth groomed
runs and carving them. The skis I have are probably pretty good for
that.

On steeps and moguls you might still use carving technique, but
softer skis might make it a more enjoyable experience. They would
suck if you wanted to do high-speed carving on groomed. At least
that's my understanding, and I was referring to exactly that - I don't
care if my skis would suck for carving on groomed.

Am I wrong?

BTW, if you can ski, why would you want to waste time in a park? That's
for boarders whose equipment limits their all mountain access. Just get
out on the real terrain and find your own natural half pipes, jumps,
drops, stumps, logs, etc.

Guess why I like Mt. Baker so much? It's one big natural terrain park,
with half-pipes, kickers, drops and all. I enjoy all of it a lot, and my
equipment of choice so far was a snowboard. I don't have problems
keeping up with my skier friends there.

I don't share you opinion about boards limiting my all mountain access,
it just goes against my own experience. And I never mentioned the park,
why are you bringing that up here?

"lal_truckee" wrote

We're not talking about what it takes to ski a half pipe - who cares.

Hey, this is my thread and I did talk and care about half pipe.
Get outta here!

lal_truckee wrote:

In order to do steeps, moguls, powder, you need to be able to carve
your
skis - the tails have to follow the tips or you're screwed.

To have maximum control, yes, but I see many people ski those pretty
well without ever making a carving turn. Carving is highly recommended,
of course.

lal_truckee wrote:

I think you ignored my remark about the pointlessness of skiing
powder
on boards that stay on the surface. So again: what's the point of
such skis?

One point of semi-fats is to go faster and make those fantastic ~15m
radius sweeping high-speed turns. Difficult as hell with narrow skis.

If you really want to learn about that snowboard, there's some
snowboard race camp coming up on Hood at Timberline,
some Jacobi dude or something. I hear he's phenomenal,
besides being a legend and all that.


"Dmitry" null@null wrote in message
...

Learning to ski is so much easier simply because there are _a lot_
more excellent skiers out there to look up to than snowboarders. I
hardly ever see a freeriding snowboarder that I can learn anything
from, and I'm only doing that for two and a half years.

"Dmitry" null@null wrote in message
...

"foot2foot" wrote

You're well crossed over,

Crossed over?

Number two on the list of the elements of the mechanics
of skiing. Crossover.


To turn right, your body must be on the right side of the skis.
To turn left, your body must be on the left side of the skis.
The above is *the* most basic, undeniable truth of all skiing.

Once you finish up a turn, you must cross the body over the skis
to change the edges and start the new turn. At that point, you
can throw in a little down the hill extension as well to make the
whole thing easier.

Cross your body over the skis. Crossover

nice angulation, nice flexion and
extension if not even a pretty strong up unweight. Not a bad
idea at all to get used to doing that, though you might not need
as much *HUP* as you were getting. Both skis coming off the
snow maybe six inches or more. Too darn much work that.

After snowboarding skiing that greenish slope seemed like a
walk in the park to me. I don't think that my pulse ever got over
80 that day.

Probably because I just don't know better than to almost
straightline But straightlining that thing on a board is
a pretty demanding excercise (trashed my board doing
just that - landed too far back after jumping that berm in the
middle and the edge gave up on me).

The one that says "no jumping"? I've seen lots of people
pack that thing all the way down in about twenty seconds,
but I haven't done it, probably won't.

I'll use your advice to _finish_ my turns next time, probably
will get the speed down and pulse up.

Really, it's about making one turn at a time to a stop. That's
where you really learn turn shape. *Then* you can link them.
Thing is, it'll be too boring unless you get something steeper.

I did notice what I would describe as hands flailing around,
getting behind you, etc. Every time your hands go out of
position, your balance disappears.

Probably the other way around. First the balance goes away,
than hands try to compensate. I'll try skiing holding both poles
together in front of me next time..

Nope. It's a common misconception. The home position is the
foundation of all balance. If you get in trouble, go home, but
you don't really have it yet. If you have home position, you
*will* be in balance. Once you get the home position (it's not
hard) you will see this is true.

[some more advice skipped]

Then, to complement that nice flex and extend you have,
as you sink at the end of the turn, give both legs a twist
from the hip socket, in the direction of the turn, so that the
knees, acting together, point more toward the center of the turn.
Steer at the end of the turn in other words. Then, extend and
crossover and start another.

I don't get this part. Steer at the end of the turn where?

OK, so, you're starting a turn, as you did very nicely. You
come off with a bit of an extension, then about halfway
through the turn you begin to sink (flex) then at the end of the
turn you have sunk down again so that you can extend again
for the next turn.

At that point your knees are bent and you'll have the most
power to steer the skis (the more bent the legs, the easier it
is to steer) by turning your legs in the hip socket, in the
direction you want to go. That last little steering motion
at the end of the turn can really help to control speed.

So, here I am, I've started a turn with an extension and
crossover, etc, then I'm in the middle of the turn, pointing
straight down the hill, then, near the end of the turn, the skis
start to turn across the hill the other way, *that's* when you
give that added extra steering motion of the skis across the hill.
As opposed to just riding them, you help them across the hill
as much as you wish.

Did I get that across?


The rest of it sounds like a plan. Get the turns completed,
get forward, go try steeper terrain. Probably poles will
come into play big time on steeper slope. Thank you.

YW, thank you.

As I think a bit more, the flex and extend I see is working for
you, however, it's mostly from the knees and waist, lots of it,
and little ankle flex. As you sink down, your butt seems to want
to poke out back behind the bindings. It's because there's no
ankle flex, and because there's basically too much flex and
extend that isn't needed. Loosen your top buckles a bit if you
need to, to get more ankle flex. It's all about ankle flex these
days. And about "upright" skiing.

If you get used to pulling your skis back underneath you as
far as you can, then skiing from there, this will help things.
From that position, only use as much flex and extend as you
can without the butt sticking out back of the bindings. It
really doesn't take all that much unless you really want to
or need to do an actual jump turn. From that position you
can be on the balls of the feet all the time.

foot2foot wrote:

If you have skis enough to float you, you don't need any of
the up down stuff of any kind. All you need to do is stand with
the legs half bent all the time and steer the legs from the hip
socket.

Something like that yes. Then one can drive the ski inside the snow and
have a helluva time making high-speed carving turns in powder. I'd say
that's harder than doing those up-down short-radius powder turns, which
are more skidding-like.

If one likes carving in powder one has to let go of that up-down stuff.