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#31
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Helmets
David Off wrote:
Ian Spare wrote: There were some people for whom the helment was clearly one more thing to buy along with this years jackets, radios and any other gadget they could find, mostly from the UK I thought :-) All the gear and no idea? Maybe that's part of it. When I was last in la Grave in '98 no-one wore helmets. To be fair I didn't any of them actually skiing anywhere I was, or was that my point ? :-) I recall some years back having to haul some clown out of Wen Zawn at Gogarth who refused at the traverse of Dream of White Horses, he had a really nice helmet and loads of kit. I recall another day sat under Dinas Cromlech when a boulder was dislodged by another punter on the abseil down Centopah Corner which made a bee line straight for the only person at base wearing a helmet who was minding their business belaying someone on Left wall, you've got to laugh :-) I ski with quite a few helmet wearers - but they tend to be doing barrel rolls and flips and such like so all the protection would seem to be a good idea. For the skiing I do the only point I would wear a helmet is if there was risk of stonefall from above. I watched a guy barrel into someone skiing in Flaine the other week, a guy skiing down minding his own business and this lunatic barreled into him and I heard the crack as their heads contacted... makes you think... |
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#32
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Helmets
David Off wrote in message ...
Ian Spare wrote: There were some people for whom the helment was clearly one more thing to buy along with this years jackets, radios and any other gadget they could find, mostly from the UK I thought :-) All the gear and no idea? Maybe that's part of it. When I was last in la Grave in '98 no-one wore helmets. I ski with quite a few helmet wearers - but they tend to be doing barrel rolls and flips and such like so all the protection would seem to be a good idea. For the skiing I do the only point I would wear a helmet is if there was risk of stonefall from above. Dunno about Pete's case for kids. The majority of kids do wear helmets now, even in France it is becoming a bit unacceptable to send your kids out without them, at least in big resorts. But at the same time when I learnt to ski as a kid we had extremely basic equipment and did jumps and stuff and no-one ever thought of the risks back then. I'm not sure wrapping everyone up in cotton wool is a good thing. Still I wear a helmet when motorcycling and wouldn't consider riding without it so maybe it is just the degree of risk being taken. There is a balance between the level of risk and comfort. Years ago the materials were not available to make a lightweight helmet that was reasonable effective against impact with a hard object (tree, ski, tarmac etc). Helmets were seldom, if ever worn for active pursuits such as kayaking, cycling, horse riding and skiing (And those that were worn offered little protection). As the materials have become available helmets can be made that are much more comfortable to wear and/or offer more protection. I think also that what was an acceptable risk 30 years ago is not considered OK now. (Motorbike helmets became compulsary about then and many people didn't like it but now it is accepted, wearing riding hats has become the normal during that time). Skiing is now entering the stage of helmet wearing. I fall more often skiing than cycling or horse riding while in skiing the landing is USUALLY soft I did once head but a waterski as I fell and the same could happen with a snow ski, hidden rocks, ice, trees, other skiers and boarders all provide hard things to hit (or be hit by) so I choose to wear a helmet although like a cycling helmet or the airbag in my car I expect it never to be used in anger. |
#33
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Helmets
Carl_M wrote:
Skiing is now entering the stage of helmet wearing. I fall more often skiing than cycling or horse riding while in skiing the landing is USUALLY soft I wonder about the point another poster made about people using safety aids taking more risks. There are some interesting studies on risk assessment which basically say that humans do a poor job of it. There is also the case of the 11 year old Canadian skier who died this week from head injuried despite wearing a helmet... seems that excess speed may be a factor. |
#34
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Helmets
David Off wrote in message ...
Carl_M wrote: Skiing is now entering the stage of helmet wearing. I fall more often skiing than cycling or horse riding while in skiing the landing is USUALLY soft I wonder about the point another poster made about people using safety aids taking more risks. There are some interesting studies on risk assessment which basically say that humans do a poor job of it. There is also the case of the 11 year old Canadian skier who died this week from head injuried despite wearing a helmet... seems that excess speed may be a factor. A single incidence does not make a case. I agree that helmets do not offer 100% protection and I have mean overtaken by maniacs going far too fast both with and without helmets. To proove the point you would need to carry out a controlled experiment (although if the participents knew it was an experiment it might affect their behavior). While there may be a few people that take more risks if they perceive they are at lower risk I don't think it is many. If there were you would expect the incidence car crashes to be higher in cars with air bags than those without. I don't have the figures but I would be surprised if any differance is significant. |
#35
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Helmets
Carl_M wrote:
A single incidence does not make a case. I agree that helmets do not offer 100% protection and I have mean overtaken by maniacs going far too fast both with and without helmets. To proove the point you would need to carry out a controlled experiment (although if the participents knew it was an experiment it might affect their behavior). While there may be a few people that take more risks if they perceive they are at lower risk I don't think it is many. If there were you would expect the incidence car crashes to be higher in cars with air bags than those without. I don't have the figures but I would be surprised if any differance is significant. There is actually a lot of research into this and it's this I assume other posters were referring to unless you're assuming they were just making it up. With or without research the idea that "may be a few people that take more risks if they perceive they are at lower risk I don't think it is many" is manifestly absurd, simple day to day observation would clearly refute this. |
#36
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Helmets
While there may be a few people that take more risks if
they perceive they are at lower risk I don't think it is many. If there were you would expect the incidence car crashes to be higher in cars with air bags than those without. I don't have the figures but I would be surprised if any differance is significant. There is actually a lot of research into this and it's this I assume other posters were referring to unless you're assuming they were just making it up. I may have missed one but as far as I can make out so far in this thread 4 people have made referances to research. Mike Clark and Carl Edwards suggested that people do take more risk (although IMO Carl's American Football example is a bit different because the objective is to hit people with your helmet). Moon man and PG referred to research where this is not the case. Without knowing the details of the research I can not make a judgment on how it applies to skiing. With or without research the idea that "may be a few people that take more risks if they perceive they are at lower risk I don't think it is many" is manifestly absurd, simple day to day observation would clearly refute this. Is it manefestly absurd that there are a few people that take more risks or that there are not many. Others may disagree with me but I don't think my view is absurd |
#37
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Helmets
As I'm taking my two kids for their first week of skiing in
a few weeks it would be good to hear some advice on the best way of getting hold of some helmets for them. Is it better to buy/rent in the UK, or is it easy to buy/rent helmets when we rent ski's & boots? Also, what is the price difference between renting and buying? Jeremy Westhead wrote: However this was based on the presumption that we could assess our own skiing abilities and match our skiing to that. Kids on the other hand often can't (or don't perceive the risk that may result if they don't) and therefore it may well be sensible for them to do so. |
#38
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Helmets
"Nigel Bradley" wrote in message
... As I'm taking my two kids for their first week of skiing in a few weeks it would be good to hear some advice on the best way of getting hold of some helmets for them. Is it better to buy/rent in the UK, or is it easy to buy/rent helmets when we rent ski's & boots? Also, what is the price difference between renting and buying? Jeremy Westhead wrote: However this was based on the presumption that we could assess our own skiing abilities and match our skiing to that. Kids on the other hand often can't (or don't perceive the risk that may result if they don't) and therefore it may well be sensible for them to do so. Nigel Our children have been to ski schools in Austria and France where ISTR helmets were easily hired with the skis/boots and were considered mandatory. I don't recall the costs being significant. I heard in Val d'Isere, I think, that children must have helmets for ski school, and all children in the ski schools we've come across wore helmets - at least in the age group up to say 10 years, can't be sure about older groups. But can't ever recall adults wearing helmets in ski classes, maybe they do now, can't tell - will have to look into that... Look at on line shops like Snow and Rock for costs - it seems a helmet can cost upwards of £50 for children. HTH Mike |
#39
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Helmets
Nigel Bradley wrote in message ...
As I'm taking my two kids for their first week of skiing in a few weeks it would be good to hear some advice on the best way of getting hold of some helmets for them. Is it better to buy/rent in the UK, or is it easy to buy/rent helmets when we rent ski's & boots? Also, what is the price difference between renting and buying? Cost of buying depends a lot on what you want. Helmets start at about £20 from places on the web like www.outdoorgear.co.uk and www.skiwear4less.co.uk. I would recommend buying in person however to ensure a good fit (with goggles being worn). Skiwear4less tour round the UK each weekend so you might find they are coming near you (the places they are going is on the website) so that is an option. If you want a helmet that looks better, offers more protection (?), is more comfortable or has the latest brand name prices go up to £80 and more. Hiring in the UK would cost about £12. While the helmet is probably not right at the bottom of the price bracket you would not be able to choose one that fits the shape of your child's head and you would not know if it had been in a severe accident previously. It is easy to rent or buy in the resort. I don't have prices but like everything else it is likely to be much more expensive in Tignes than Andorra. Most ski rental places will hire helmets too (same limitations as hiring in the UK) or you can tour the shops in the resort on your arrival day in order to buy (however if you travel on a late flight this will not be possible and if you are on an early flight the kids might be very tired having got up in the middle of the night). |
#40
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Helmets
"Nigel Bradley" wrote in message ... As I'm taking my two kids for their first week of skiing in a few weeks it would be good to hear some advice on the best way of getting hold of some helmets for them. Is it better to buy/rent in the UK, or is it easy to buy/rent helmets when we rent ski's & boots? Also, what is the price difference between renting and buying? Generally speaking hiring equipment for kids makes sense as it is bulky to carry and they grow out of it quickly. The cost of hiring childrens equipment is usually reasonable compared with adult equipment. Personally I would always hire in the resort as you save on carrying the equipment around with you and price savings are usually not much. Having said all that our children have their own lids as one year we went to Lech and they did not have any to rent so No 1who was skiing had one bought for him which got passed onto No 2. We have subsequently bought cheaply at end of season sales, childrens heads seem to grow a little slower than other parts of the body. Bob |
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