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Several avalanche deaths in the Savoie



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 25th 05, 05:31 PM
PG
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Default Several avalanche deaths in the Savoie

Avalanche deaths around the Savoie today, four in total so far, Val
d'Isère (some confusion whether he died or is severly injured), La
Plagne, Val Thorens and Les Arcs.

I was in the Villaroger sector of Les Arcs today, and it was worrying to
see so many people, mainly boarders, going off-piste. One British guy -
ARVA equipped - was boarding on his own on the steep Col des Lanchettes
in Villaroger. A couple of turns into his descent of the extremely steep
first wall and the whole slope gave way. Thanks to his ARVA he was
located quickly, but was already dead.

Risk 4 today, and piste security are thinking of raising it to 5 in some
areas tomorrrow. A major dump on top of the thin, rock-hard layer of old
snow, about the worst combination you can get. Didn't seem to bother
some people though.

Pete


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  #2  
Old January 25th 05, 06:23 PM
Simon Brown
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"PG" wrote in message
...
Avalanche deaths around the Savoie today, four in total so far, Val
d'Isère (some confusion whether he died or is severly injured), La
Plagne, Val Thorens and Les Arcs.

I was in the Villaroger sector of Les Arcs today, and it was worrying to
see so many people, mainly boarders, going off-piste. One British guy -
ARVA equipped - was boarding on his own on the steep Col des Lanchettes
in Villaroger. A couple of turns into his descent of the extremely steep
first wall and the whole slope gave way. Thanks to his ARVA he was
located quickly, but was already dead.

Risk 4 today, and piste security are thinking of raising it to 5 in some
areas tomorrrow. A major dump on top of the thin, rock-hard layer of old
snow, about the worst combination you can get. Didn't seem to bother
some people though.

Pete



Darwin awards all round, some idiots in Austria also got killed, one cannot
feel sorry because they were warned many times.

Sorry to say this but I'm sure others will agree it's true. Off-piste while
the risk of avalanche is at the maximum = dead.

But I read today about a Charlie who crashed 200m down a mountain in an
avalanche, and while buried called for help with his mobile and was rescued.
His guardian angle was on duty :-)
--
Simon Brown
www.hb9drv.ch www.laax.ch
..



  #3  
Old January 25th 05, 10:08 PM
Sammy
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When is someone going to stop this madness?

Sammy

  #4  
Old January 26th 05, 08:06 AM
Nick Hounsome
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Some good links:

From Henry's Avalanche Talk
(http://hat-enterprises.dnsalias.com/avalanchetalk/)
FAQ:
http://hat-enterprises.dnsalias.com/...939 7ADFC41D3
A great account of being in one:
http://hat-enterprises.dnsalias.com/...oryContent.jsp

I don't have a link anymore but I once googled up some stats on avalanche
deaths and despite the cliche of the crazy foreign off piste skier/boarder I
seem to remember that most were local snowshoers!


  #5  
Old January 26th 05, 08:09 AM
Ace
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On 25 Jan 2005 14:08:14 -0800, "Sammy" wrote:

When is someone going to stop this madness?


What madness is this, then? It would perhaps help if you give (or had)
a clue, like quoting some of the previous post for reference.

Anyway, as for folk being killed in avalanches, there are loads of
people involved in trying to educate mountain users about the risks
and trying to avoid them. In these cases it's not clear whether the
fatalities occurred in closed areas, but the vast majority of
(European) avalanche deaths do, so it's basically people ignoring the
safety advice that's offered to them.

What would you suggest? Making it illegal to ride off-piste, perhaps?
Only allowed in marked areas? Perhaps we should just close the whole
mountain and lift system if the risk is greater than 3?

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club.
  #6  
Old January 26th 05, 09:55 AM
Florian Anwander
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Hi Nick

I don't have a link anymore but I once googled up some stats on avalanche
deaths and despite the cliche of the crazy foreign off piste skier/boarder I
seem to remember that most were local snowshoers!

Sounds like a statistics about northern american regions. In the Alps
snowshoeers are a real minority. The actual reality speaks other words:
In Austria ten people were buried by avalanche last weekend, four
persons died:
- Three of them not from the continent (2x US and Canadian),
- with one exception (see below) none of them was a local skier,
- all did offpiste skiing (means "not backcountry touring"),
- at least seven out of then were snowboarders.

See:
http://oesterreich.orf.at/oesterreic...l=10&id=363891
(German)

Very intimidating is an accident in St. Anton, where a ski instructor
skiied into a quite risky slope, and his pupils followed. The avalanche
buried/killed the pupils. An skiing instructor should be really aware of
avalanche warnings and obey them (I assume the instructor was a local guy).

Florian

  #7  
Old January 26th 05, 10:03 AM
WeatherCam
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"Ace" wrote in message
...
On 25 Jan 2005 14:08:14 -0800, "Sammy" wrote:

When is someone going to stop this madness?


What madness is this, then? It would perhaps help if you give (or had)
a clue, like quoting some of the previous post for reference.


Ease up big boy - I like others, could suss out where Sammy was coming
from - ok it was only "her" POV she was expressing!!!


  #8  
Old January 26th 05, 10:05 AM
Sammy
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Ace wrote:
On 25 Jan 2005 14:08:14 -0800, "Sammy"

wrote:

When is someone going to stop this madness?


What madness is this, then? It would perhaps help if you give (or

had)
a clue, like quoting some of the previous post for reference.


[snip]

What would you suggest? Making it illegal to ride off-piste, perhaps?
Only allowed in marked areas? Perhaps we should just close the whole
mountain and lift system if the risk is greater than 3?

--
Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk
All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of

the Ski Club.

Yes you're right, I should explain: I was responding to Simon Brown's
tasteless post. Discussing the known facts is one thing, crowing about
how evolutionarily-challenged someone is because they had the
misfortune to be caught in an avalanche is quite another. Real people
died agonizing deaths either through trauma, hypothermia or
suffocation. Trying to look superior on a NG is quite sad and an
inappropriate response.

And yes, the only way to prevent this happening is to close the
mountain when the risk is 4 or 5. Risk level 4 overall must mean there
are likely to be sections within the area equivalent to risk 5, if you
see what I mean. Since I, for one, would hate the mountain to be
closed, we must accept that unfortunate accidents happen when we go out
to play in conditions like this. Avalanches are no respecter of
someone's experience, one of the people caught yesterday was a guide -
his client died, he was too late to save her having dug her out.
Sooner or later we all get caught, it is just a matter of time. RIP
Dede Rhem.

Sammy

  #9  
Old January 26th 05, 11:11 AM
WeatherCam
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See http://www.pistehors.com/comments/400_0_1_0_C/ for more detail - just in
the Savoie region - 4 killed


  #10  
Old January 26th 05, 12:10 PM
Paul Kelly
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In message , Ace
writes
On 25 Jan 2005 14:08:14 -0800, "Sammy" wrote:

When is someone going to stop this madness?


On this NG yesterday or the day before there was someone extolling the
virtues of not using a smoke detector - what hope for stupidity on the
ski slopes?

http://www.firesafetytoolbox.org.uk/...larms/factsabo
utsmokealarmsandsmokealarmownership.htm

Quote:
Those without a smoke alarm (which discovered the fire) are four times
more likely to die in a fire than those who own alarms;

Incidentally there are detectors available which have a hush button to
overcome the nuisance of false alarms.


What madness is this, then? It would perhaps help if you give (or had)
a clue, like quoting some of the previous post for reference.

Anyway, as for folk being killed in avalanches, there are loads of
people involved in trying to educate mountain users about the risks
and trying to avoid them. In these cases it's not clear whether the
fatalities occurred in closed areas, but the vast majority of
(European) avalanche deaths do, so it's basically people ignoring the
safety advice that's offered to them.


Just as many people forget the skier code on the pistes - if they ever
knew it.

One (American) instructor in Saalbach (Ski School) was openly laughed at
by quite reasonable people when he took short breaks in the lessons to
re-inforce the messages. This was 7 years ago perhaps it would not
happen now.

I witnessed a snow boarder quite close to Belle Plange about 4 years
ago set off and be chased by a small avalanche quite close to the piste
= this during a risk number 2 posted - he was going fast enough to
outrun it and as he got close to the piste the lack of slope stopped the
avalanche. I do not even know if he knew it was behind him. Perhaps it
would not happen now.


What would you suggest?


You have got to get at each and every snow user - it is worth it because
along with fewer deaths in Avalanches we would get fewer snow boarders
sitting in groups in the middle of the piste

So a voluntary (for starters) license to ski - sounds horrible does it?
It would have to be a written test, have to be renewed, would give you
a worthwhile having discount on the lifts and could be revoked by the
resort staff for all sorts of misdemeanours - along with the lift pass.
If it took off it could even lead to a reduction of costs of
holidays/insurance

It will never happen.

Making it illegal to ride off-piste, perhaps?
Only allowed in marked areas? Perhaps we should just close the whole
mountain and lift system if the risk is greater than 3?


--
Paul
 




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