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#11
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Skating in citizen classic races
I think there is probably a lot going on in the lead pack that is not
apparent. Switching lanes to ride the inside of the curve is very common, for example (i.e., for the running folks, it's running the tangents). But, there's a lot more in terms of jockeying for position, or if you are leading to try and put someone else out in front. You always want to be near the front (to be able to react to moves and to avoid the accordian effect) but not right at the front (grooming the trail and blocking the wind for those behind). Cheers, Brian In article , John O'Connell wrote: What I did notice in the TV coverge of the leaders (top 60 or so) in the Vasaloppet was frequent lane shifting for no apparent reason, that does give you the legal option for a quick skate to get over to the next track...it seemed to be part of a strategy. At that level the transition is so smooth and powerfull that I believe it did allow for some acceleration. |
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#12
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Skating in citizen classic races
It was so icy in spots
and wax had been stripped that many people resorted to skating just to get up some of the moderate hills. People who do that don't GET IT. That's part of the game. You wax so you won't get it stripped off. If you lose your wax, then tough. I dp'd the last 4km of the Birkie because it warmed up so much that I had no kick. No skating. But I may be in the minority with my "play by the rules" mentality, in today's "I'm OK, you're OK, we're all good people regardless of what we do" society. bt |
#13
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Skating in citizen classic races
I also hate herringbone at present and am almost sympathetic to someone doing
diag-skate just to keep moving. So you're saying that it's ok to "wimp skate" in places because a) you don't like herringbone, or b) it's to slow? Herringbone IS SUPPOSED to be slow, it's just walking up a hill. The only way to do it faster is to run. Again (see other post), if you're not going to play by the rules in a striding race, then don't enter. Stick with your stupid skating races that are increasingly becoming the domain of off-season triathlon geeks and cyclists who can do well because, well, skating fast requires minimal proficiency on skis. bt (who was upset to learn this year that he can't skate-turn around corners in a striding race if there is a track there. what does he do now? he lives by the rules! what a concept!) If I've upset anyone, I apologize. A half hour of NPR should calm you down. |
#14
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Skating in citizen classic races
"Gary Jacobson" wrote in message .. .
When I see this at first I am angry, but then I don't care. Whats there to be upset about? These folks aren't winning any pizes. Unless of course they are planning to vie for the Johann Muhlegg cheater award in the next annual Gunde Svan RSN award. Gary Jacosbon Rosendale, NY Gary, Let me see if I understand you correctly; it is OK to cheat (break the rules) if are not on the podium. Hm ? Dell |
#15
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Skating in citizen classic races
sknyski wrote:
I also hate herringbone at present and am almost sympathetic to someone doing diag-skate just to keep moving. So you're saying that it's ok to "wimp skate" in places because a) you don't like herringbone, or b) it's to slow? NO. By "almost sympathetic" I'm saying that I'm personally not going to bust them. Herringbone IS SUPPOSED to be slow, it's just walking up a hill. The only way to do it faster is to run. Right, and you can run it way fast and relaxed if you know what you're doing. Again (see other post), if you're not going to play by the rules in a striding race, then don't enter. Stick with your stupid skating races Well, that's on them not me. I don't skate. But I don't bust people's butts for a minor infraction done a couple times. I advocate a 3-step plan to fix this scene. Obviously it's wrong what people do. How to fix it best? I suggest: 1.) Create a 'heads up' awareness at the following races with pre-race announcement and encouragement of self-DQ. 2.) If that didn't work, put marshalls on the course. 3.) If that didn't work start allowing peers to turn each other in. I think we can get things sorted out quickly without people busting each other. Sure, there's been backsliding. I say to slide it back instead of hammer it back. -- Jeff Potter **** *Out Your Backdoor * http://www.outyourbackdoor.com publisher of do-it-yourself culture ... bikes, skis, boats & more! ... ... offering Vordenberg's XC ski tales in "Momentum"! ... ... "The Recumbent Bicycle": the only book about these bikes! ... ... Rudloe's "Potluck": true-life story of workingclass smuggling! ... ... with radical novels coming up via LiteraryRevolution.com! ... ... music! ... articles! ... travel forums! ... WOW! 800-763-6923 |
#16
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Skating in citizen classic races
In article , "Ken
Roberts" wrote: Seems to me that skating up a hill is observably different from herringbone -- and therefore consistently-enforceable, if there are observers. Gary Jacobson wrote At Konig Ludwig Lauf this year I saw many people skating up the steep hills. Why? I don't know. Because skating up a hill is easier and/or faster than herringbone. And switching to skating engages some different muscles than classic striding and double-poling, which helps fight against fatigue. And when I sked the Vasaloppet, I saw many people skating around the 80 km mark. I don't have a big problem with people who sincerely intended to do the whole race pure Classic, but their grip wax stopped working -- provided they are not podium-contenders. I guess Jeff's idea of removing the bib seems like a reasonable way to self-identify the situation. Maybe we could have a separate category on the official results list, say "FNC" for "Finished but Not pure Classic". Actually I feel sorry for people who try to do the whole Vasaloppet course with Classic technique. Except for that first big hill, it's a beautiful skating course -- and it was beautifully groomed for skating last year when I did the Oppet Spar Skridsko. Somewhat heretically, I can find no basis for disallowing diagonal-skate in a "classical" race. |
#17
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Skating in citizen classic races
"levi" wrote Somewhat heretically, I can find no basis for disallowing diagonal-skate in a "classical" race. Except for the fact it's not classical technique, and cheating vis a vis real classical technique, no, there is no basis 8-) Grissy |
#18
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Skating in citizen classic races
"Ken Roberts" wrote in message
... Seems to me that skating up a hill is observably different from herringbone -- and therefore consistently-enforceable, if there are observers. Exactly. Of course serious races do have enforcers often backed up by video. Gary Jacobson wrote At Konig Ludwig Lauf this year I saw many people skating up the steep hills. Why? I don't know. Because skating up a hill is easier and/or faster than herringbone. And switching to skating engages some different muscles than classic striding and double-poling, which helps fight against fatigue. And is cheating, of course. And when I sked the Vasaloppet, I saw many people skating around the 80 km mark. I don't have a big problem with people who sincerely intended to do the whole race pure Classic, but their grip wax stopped working -- provided they are not podium-contenders. I guess Jeff's idea of removing the bib seems like a reasonable way to self-identify the situation. Maybe we could have a separate category on the official results list, say "FNC" for "Finished but Not pure Classic". OK, this I couldn't disagree with this more. Sincerity and good intentions have nothing to do with whether you cheat or not ("I didn't intend to when I started the race, so I'm not a really bad cheater, just a little bit of a cheater"). Stopping to quickly re-wax and/or doing the best you can is what you do, not cheat. This is the way of dealing with changing wax conditions, missing the wax, or wearing off wax. It's part of the sport and one of the reasons why classic is a more challenging (and better imho) technique than skating. If you just can't do that, fine, no big deal, it happens. But, then you quit the race (e.g. take your bib off or leave the course). I'm assuming the FNC is a joke? There is no need for a new term - it's DNF. If they don't finish using the designated technique, they simply do not finish, period. Why would anyone enter a race and not follow the rules for that race and still want to be called a finisher? Actually I feel sorry for people who try to do the whole Vasaloppet course with Classic technique. Except for that first big hill, it's a beautiful skating course -- and it was beautifully groomed for skating last year when I did the Oppet Spar Skridsko. Ken OK now we get into the old classic vs. skate ****ing match (said in good humor!). Actually (seriously, since you brought it up) I feel happen to sorry for people who wouldn't or couldn't do a long race striding or understand why others prefer the better technique. I won't say they are poor or incomplete skiers, but .... After all, classic skiing is much more fun, challenging, and satisfying than skating. In classic brute power can't overcome mediocre technique (as in skating) 8-). That's why I love skiing (both) - because it involves so much technique to master vs. other endurance sports, and classic just feels better and is more fun to me. Grissy |
#19
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Skating in citizen classic races
In classic brute power can't
overcome mediocre technique (as in skating) 8-). That's why I love skiing (both) - because it involves so much technique to master vs. other endurance sports, and classic just feels better and is more fun to me. Grissy I love skiing both techniques as well, but in DP situations, i think brute force overcomes technique just as it CAN in skate races. Jim |
#20
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Skating in citizen classic races
"jim farrell" wrote in message
... In classic brute power can't overcome mediocre technique (as in skating) 8-). That's why I love skiing (both) - because it involves so much technique to master vs. other endurance sports, and classic just feels better and is more fun to me. Grissy I love skiing both techniques as well, but in DP situations, i think brute force overcomes technique just as it CAN in skate races. Jim Yea, of course you're right. I was exaggerating a little in the spirit of the irresolvable debate (and as I said, intended in good humor). DP is about my least favorite part of striding because I don't have as much core and upper body power as I'd like. Pretty wimpy actually! Griss. |
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