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Necessary to get new bindings checked?



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 24th 16, 03:28 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Toller[_3_]
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Posts: 32
Default Necessary to get new bindings checked?

I just bought a Volkl 81ATM. The binding just slide on and fasten with a screw (though they don't give instructions, to try and stop you from doing it...).

Is it necessary to get them checked, or can you assume new binding are accurate? The charts say to set them at 6, but I always use 5 and find it works fine; so I have a little margin of safety if they are off a bit. If they are too low I guess I will find out quickly enough.

I don't mind the $20, but no one around here does it.


While I am on the subject, the bindings say they have "triple pivot elite" toes but don't say anywhere what the triple means. Do they also open if you fall straight back? Pretty sure I've never done that, but maybe some day..
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  #2  
Old September 24th 16, 07:47 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Richard Henry
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Posts: 3,756
Default Necessary to get new bindings checked?

On Saturday, September 24, 2016 at 8:28:10 AM UTC-7, Toller wrote:
I just bought a Volkl 81ATM. The binding just slide on and fasten with a screw (though they don't give instructions, to try and stop you from doing it...).

Is it necessary to get them checked, or can you assume new binding are accurate? The charts say to set them at 6, but I always use 5 and find it works fine; so I have a little margin of safety if they are off a bit. If they are too low I guess I will find out quickly enough.

I don't mind the $20, but no one around here does it.


While I am on the subject, the bindings say they have "triple pivot elite" toes but don't say anywhere what the triple means. Do they also open if you fall straight back? Pretty sure I've never done that, but maybe some day.


I can't imagine anyplace you would go skiing that does not have a pro shop at the base that is capable of doing a basic safety check on the bindings.

If you have any mechanical training or experience, the concept of a safety binding is pretty simple. A spring or something similar holds everything together until an unsafe force overcomes the spring force, allowing the binding to release. Any user can set his bindings to whatever he wants and perform simple functional tests, but the professional gets paid because he has the test equipment and knows how the bindings work, what settings are appropriate for which users, and how to test for proper function.
  #3  
Old September 25th 16, 04:10 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Toller[_3_]
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Posts: 32
Default Necessary to get new bindings checked?

On Saturday, September 24, 2016 at 3:47:08 PM UTC-4, Richard Henry wrote:
On Saturday, September 24, 2016 at 8:28:10 AM UTC-7, Toller wrote:
I just bought a Volkl 81ATM. The binding just slide on and fasten with a screw (though they don't give instructions, to try and stop you from doing it...).

Is it necessary to get them checked, or can you assume new binding are accurate? The charts say to set them at 6, but I always use 5 and find it works fine; so I have a little margin of safety if they are off a bit. If they are too low I guess I will find out quickly enough.

I don't mind the $20, but no one around here does it.


While I am on the subject, the bindings say they have "triple pivot elite" toes but don't say anywhere what the triple means. Do they also open if you fall straight back? Pretty sure I've never done that, but maybe some day.


I can't imagine anyplace you would go skiing that does not have a pro shop at the base that is capable of doing a basic safety check on the bindings..

They do, but they don't open until maybe December.

If you have any mechanical training or experience, the concept of a safety binding is pretty simple. A spring or something similar holds everything together until an unsafe force overcomes the spring force, allowing the binding to release. Any user can set his bindings to whatever he wants and perform simple functional tests, but the professional gets paid because he has the test equipment and knows how the bindings work, what settings are appropriate for which users, and how to test for proper function.


They release when I force the heel forward or the toe sideways; so I know they "work", but my shove isn't well calibrated.

I guess my question is really if bindings are typically accurate from the factory, or if they can be significantly off. The only pair I ever had were spot on, but one sample isn't really proof.
  #4  
Old September 25th 16, 04:52 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
The Real Bev[_4_]
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Posts: 1,233
Default Necessary to get new bindings checked?

On 09/25/2016 09:10 AM, Toller wrote:
On Saturday, September 24, 2016 at 3:47:08 PM UTC-4, Richard Henry
wrote:
On Saturday, September 24, 2016 at 8:28:10 AM UTC-7, Toller wrote:
I just bought a Volkl 81ATM. The binding just slide on and
fasten with a screw (though they don't give instructions, to try
and stop you from doing it...).

Is it necessary to get them checked, or can you assume new
binding are accurate? The charts say to set them at 6, but I
always use 5 and find it works fine; so I have a little margin of
safety if they are off a bit. If they are too low I guess I will
find out quickly enough.

I don't mind the $20, but no one around here does it.

While I am on the subject, the bindings say they have "triple
pivot elite" toes but don't say anywhere what the triple means.
Do they also open if you fall straight back? Pretty sure I've
never done that, but maybe some day.


I can't imagine anyplace you would go skiing that does not have a
pro shop at the base that is capable of doing a basic safety check
on the bindings.

They do, but they don't open until maybe December.

If you have any mechanical training or experience, the concept of a
safety binding is pretty simple. A spring or something similar
holds everything together until an unsafe force overcomes the
spring force, allowing the binding to release. Any user can set
his bindings to whatever he wants and perform simple functional
tests, but the professional gets paid because he has the test
equipment and knows how the bindings work, what settings are
appropriate for which users, and how to test for proper function.


They release when I force the heel forward or the toe sideways; so I
know they "work", but my shove isn't well calibrated.

I guess my question is really if bindings are typically accurate from
the factory, or if they can be significantly off. The only pair I
ever had were spot on, but one sample isn't really proof.


My Atomic heelpiece (replaced free when the bindings were recalled due
to heelpieces breaking in half) broke in half after 37 days (fewer than
100 hours) of blue-run skiing. I guess they didn't solve the problem,
and I'll never buy anything Atomic ever again. Sport Chalet (the
original one, where people were supposed to know what they were doing)
swapped out some newish bindings I had on some other skis for free, and
if I hadn't had those (I took the easy road) I would have sued SOMEBODY.

Some factories are better than others. Spend the money and have them
checked. There are no guarantees, but every little bit helps.

--
Cheers, Bev
  #5  
Old September 25th 16, 05:11 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
lal_truckee
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Posts: 1,348
Default Necessary to get new bindings checked?

On 9/25/16 9:10 AM, Toller wrote:

I guess my question is really if bindings are typically accurate from the factory, or if they can be significantly off.


Don't know if the industry still operates the same, but used to be each
manufacturer specified how much the set DIN could deviate from the
measured release DIN before declaring the binding unusable and a shop
wouldn't officially set them. (Off the books, shoppies do a lot of
things.) Some brands "featured" significant deviation, often right from
the factory. Bottom line - you couldn't trust the on-binding "DIN"
setting to provide a specified DIN release, even brand new. On the other
hand, near enough is often good enough.
I assume in practice it is still the same.
  #6  
Old September 25th 16, 07:00 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Richard Henry
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Posts: 3,756
Default Necessary to get new bindings checked?

On Sunday, September 25, 2016 at 10:11:53 AM UTC-7, lal_truckee wrote:
On 9/25/16 9:10 AM, Toller wrote:

I guess my question is really if bindings are typically accurate from the factory, or if they can be significantly off.


Don't know if the industry still operates the same, but used to be each
manufacturer specified how much the set DIN could deviate from the
measured release DIN before declaring the binding unusable and a shop
wouldn't officially set them. (Off the books, shoppies do a lot of
things.) Some brands "featured" significant deviation, often right from
the factory. Bottom line - you couldn't trust the on-binding "DIN"
setting to provide a specified DIN release, even brand new. On the other
hand, near enough is often good enough.
I assume in practice it is still the same.


The DIN settings are defined by a quasi-government organization (Deutches Institut fur Normen = German Institute for Standards) so the settings numbers are traceable to actual metric numbers. The 11 and 12 on your bindings are not just like Spinal Tap's "better than 10". One could build a device that mimics the ones in ski shops, but it would probably cost more than getting them tested by a professional, insured, ski shop.

A high school friend of mine used to say that he could test the release of his toe pieces by putting the ski on and then kicking the front of the ski sideways into the snow.

Until he sprained his knee doing that.
  #7  
Old September 25th 16, 07:13 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Alan Baker
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Posts: 3,864
Default Necessary to get new bindings checked?

On 2016-09-25 12:00 PM, Richard Henry wrote:
On Sunday, September 25, 2016 at 10:11:53 AM UTC-7, lal_truckee wrote:
On 9/25/16 9:10 AM, Toller wrote:

I guess my question is really if bindings are typically accurate from the factory, or if they can be significantly off.


Don't know if the industry still operates the same, but used to be each
manufacturer specified how much the set DIN could deviate from the
measured release DIN before declaring the binding unusable and a shop
wouldn't officially set them. (Off the books, shoppies do a lot of
things.) Some brands "featured" significant deviation, often right from
the factory. Bottom line - you couldn't trust the on-binding "DIN"
setting to provide a specified DIN release, even brand new. On the other
hand, near enough is often good enough.
I assume in practice it is still the same.


The DIN settings are defined by a quasi-government organization (Deutches Institut fur Normen = German Institute for Standards) so the settings numbers are traceable to actual metric numbers. The 11 and 12 on your bindings are not just like Spinal Tap's "better than 10". One could build a device that mimics the ones in ski shops, but it would probably cost more than getting them tested by a professional, insured, ski shop.

A high school friend of mine used to say that he could test the release of his toe pieces by putting the ski on and then kicking the front of the ski sideways into the snow.

Until he sprained his knee doing that.


I always thought that testing by banging was foolish...

....but you can test by digging the edge in and then slowly twisting your
foot. Done that way, you're actually getting a test of the force
required to release versus the torque your leg can generate and
therefore (hopefully) withstand.
  #8  
Old September 26th 16, 02:25 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
downhill
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Posts: 644
Default Necessary to get new bindings checked?

lal_truckee wrote:
On 9/25/16 9:10 AM, Toller wrote:

I guess my question is really if bindings are typically accurate from
the factory, or if they can be significantly off.


Don't know if the industry still operates the same, but used to be each
manufacturer specified how much the set DIN could deviate from the
measured release DIN before declaring the binding unusable and a shop
wouldn't officially set them. (Off the books, shoppies do a lot of
things.) Some brands "featured" significant deviation, often right from
the factory. Bottom line - you couldn't trust the on-binding "DIN"
setting to provide a specified DIN release, even brand new. On the other
hand, near enough is often good enough.
I assume in practice it is still the same.


My two cents would be test the binding.
Had a set of atomics that on the race hill a real atomic rep pointed out
they were installed wrong, he took them apart fixed them.
But it is your body and having somebody with experience checking them is
a good thing. Best to find somebody with real exposure to the machine
not somebody just hired.
My issue is no one will check them at a race setting. It is really not
hard to test, the biggest issue is getting the ski in a locked unmovable
location. Like a heavy test bench. Then use a torque wrench that records
max valve. Do the calculation and you can come up with numbers.
It is a little over simplification of the process but it not impossible.

  #9  
Old October 25th 16, 03:03 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Walt
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Posts: 624
Default Necessary to get new bindings checked?

On 9/24/2016 11:28 AM, Toller wrote:
I just bought a Volkl 81ATM. The binding just slide on and fasten with a screw (though they don't give instructions, to try and stop you from doing it...).

Is it necessary to get them checked, or can you assume new binding are accurate? The charts say to set them at 6, but I always use 5 and find it works fine; so I have a little margin of safety if they are off a bit. If they are too low I guess I will find out quickly enough.

I don't mind the $20, but no one around here does it.


Get 'em checked. The important thing is not the DIN so much as the
forward pressure and the release torque. Shops have a way to measure
these, most people don't.

If the forward pressure is incorrect, then the DIN setting won't matter,
you're either coming out or staying in no matter what.

Once the forward pressure is set, then the DIN setting *should* mean
that the binding releases at the designated amount of torque, but the
only way to be sure is to test it with a torque wrench (or one of those
fancy machines they have now)

All that said, your bones, your call.




While I am on the subject, the bindings say they have "triple pivot elite" toes but don't say anywhere what the triple means. Do they also open if you fall straight back? Pretty sure I've never done that, but maybe some day.


Triple is better than double, which is better than single. Next season
look for "quadruple extra pivot elite plus" from the marketing droids.


--
//Walt
  #10  
Old October 25th 16, 05:25 PM posted to rec.skiing.alpine
Toller[_3_]
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Posts: 32
Default Necessary to get new bindings checked?

I took in and the tech was confused, as I had already set them. I explained I just wanted them tested, and he said almost no one does that; but just occasionally they find a problem with new bindings.

They never got back to me (just put them in my locker) so I will presume mine weren't the exception.
 




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