Helmets!

"Champ" wrote in message
...
| On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 16:36:12 +0100, "PG"
| wrote:
|
| Children look up to the racing elite and emulate them.
|
| Your daughter doesn't seem to.

On the contrary. She is coached by and trains alongside World Cup and
French team racers, and naturally emulates those she admires.

| But I guess she's different.

She races, and spends more time in one season on the snow than many will
do in a lifetime. Few have that opportunity and experience in the UK.

| Her opinion is
| that by not setting an example he is letting her generation down.
| Whether you/the racer concerned/whoever thinks that the only
| responsibility is to oneself is simply one standpoint. There are
those
| who think differently, and it is an entirely acceptable position to
| hold, and argue.
|
| I don't think you've really argued it. The proposition would seem to
| be that senior racers not wearing helmets encourages children not to
| wear helmets. However, the one example you have, your daughter, gives
| the opposite result.

Given that she is exposed to the advice and example of a considerable
number of national and international coaches and racers who do wear
helmets, she is proof positive that the proposition is valid.

She also bases her decision on personal experience of racing and free
skiing, including a hole in one helmet from a tree root that would
otherwise have been in her skull.

| I would argue the following : "Senior racers taking responsibility for
| their own safety encourages children to take responsbility for
| themselves too". Is my arguement any more or less provable than
| yours?

That would be valid as long as the children are equally exposed to the
example of the great majority of racers that do wear helmets.

"Ace" wrote in message
...
| On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 16:02:46 +0000, Champ wrote:
|
|
| I would argue the following : "Senior racers taking responsibility
for
| their own safety encourages children to take responsbility for
| themselves too". Is my arguement any more or less provable than
| yours?
|
| I think the available evidence would support a similar argument :
| "Senior racers taking responsibility for their own safety encourages
| children to discuss the issues involved".
|
| Which is a good thing, IMO.

Absolutely. It does of course help if a representative sample of senior
racers is providing the example, however.

Champ wrote:
That's cos yanks are weenies :-)


Recent research has concluded that concussions result in permanent brain
damage. In other words you get stupider. That applies to brain injuries
from soccer, football, snowboarding, skiing, etc.

If you've seen as many people taken off ski resorts (and ice skating
rinks) with concussions or other head injuries as I have then you might
have a different opinion about wearing a helmet. My most vivid memory,
which is what resulted in my wearing a helmet, was a mother frantically
trying to find the closest medical facility after her daughter (about
10) fell and hit her head while skiing. Based on the kid's behavior, she
had a bad concussion.

Shortly after I started wearing a helmet I nearly got hit in the head
with skis while standing by the lodge before I got on the snow. The skis
were over a person's shoulder. The person turned. I saw the skis
(head-high motion) in my peripheral vision and ducked. Had I not ducked
the helmet that was already on my head would have prevented a headache
and a lacerated scalp.

Another time I nearly got hit in the head by a chair while exiting and
trying to avoid the pile of people at the bottom of the exit ramp after
people two or three chairs in front of my chair fell. The stupid lift
operator didn't stop the lift and people kept piling into each other. I
probably should have stayed on the chair and tripped the emergency off
switch.

Dean

http://www.cpsc.gov/library/skihelm.pdf

D wrote:

[snip]

I find my Giro helmet comfortable, warm and light. I've never hit my
head riding, but that doesn't mean I won't sometimes. Also, it gives my
wife peace of mind (she thinks I ride way too fast) and doesn't
inconvenience me. My kids of course are helmeted. The biggest argument
to me is protection from out of control assholes.

The only downsides are that the extra size causes me to get clanged by
the safety bar coming down if I'm not paying attention, and that you
can't wear a hood. If it's really windy/cold I sometimes ditch the
helmet so I can wear my hood.

Neil

PG avait prétendu :
"David Mahon" wrote in message
...
In article , Séan
writes

Lets be sensible for a moment.....
The potential for serious injury, and I'm talking about to your childs
brain, is greatly increased whilst skiing, unlike walking to the shops!
Its not about 'litigtion' or what she might do to herself, its all the
other idiots skiing on the edge of control and about to lose it at the
next bump in the snow.

We all know that it is folly to let your child ride a bike without a
helmet for the same reason.

Cycle helmets may actually be counter productive. There is good evidence
that enforcing the use of cycle helmets stops youngsters cycling,
promotes obesity and leads to health detriment. There's also very
little, if any, reduction of deaths.

Every year you hear a tragic story of some youngster (skier/boarder)
killed due to head injury.

Shealy et al conclude "...the findings are not particularly supportive
of the notion that wearing helmets will significantly reduce the number
of fatalities in winter snowsports". This was supported by a
presentation at the last ISSS meeting by the Chief Medical Examiner for
the state of Vermont, USA - Dr Paul L. Morrow. Dr Morrow was of the
opinion that of 54 deaths at commercial ski areas in Vermont from
1979/80 to 1997/98, helmets would not have been of any particular value
in saving any of the lives lost - as the degree of trauma simply
overwhelmed any benefits that the helmet might convey in an impact. To
quote Shealy et al again - a team of highly respected ski injury
researchers - "On the basis of results to date, there is no clear
evidence that helmets have been shown to be an effective means of
reducing fatalities in alpine sports".

So it looks like the issue's not settled there either.

Hell, following that logic, let's stop the compulsory wearing of
seatbelts while we're about it! What makes cyclists obese is wearing a
helmet?!! Come on, you've got to be kidding!

That particular study only mentions fatalities. Extremely important too
is severe brain trauma not resulting in death, of varying degrees of
severity. It's plain obvious to anyone who spends a lot of time on the
slopes (and I do so as a French race club director with kids that spend
months on the slopes each year, both racing and free skiing) that the
wearing of a helmet has prevented numerous injuries, minor and major.
Obviously there's a limit to how effective they can be, and there will
always be exceptions to the rule.

Pete
www.skiclublesarcs.com

I can only support this. We had a close to tragic experience last
Saturday on the heights of Samoëns, with the wind turning upside down
every single chair on the top of the Chariande II lifts so that they
hitted the "interior" skier at head height just before he could leave
the landing area. My wife was in that position, without helmet, she
stayed on the ground under serious shock for 20 minutes while I could
see 4 or 5 other wearing helmets just getting up and starting again.
(BTW, they ended up closing the chairs for 30 minutes after 10
successive skiers were hitted by the chairs). And thank you, my wife
was safe and fine, with a nice haematome on her head that make her
still suffer today ;-( I think she will seriously think "helmet" for
herself as of our next stay !

--
Dominique Foucart
Site for hiking trails in Giffre Valley:
http://dfoucart.tripod.com/randosamoens
Studio rental in lovely Samoens:
http://dfoucart.tripod.com/lovelysamoens/id3.html

PG wrote:
Back on the subject of helmets, my 12 year old watched a shot of Baxter
on Ski Sunday in the slalom, and was disgusted that he wasn't wearing a
helmet - ok it wasn't a speed discipline, but they really can travel...

I watched the race, the first slalom I have seen for a while, and
actually noted that some racers *were* wearing helmets. I'm sure in the
past, the majority of Slalom racers didn't wear them.

BTW I wear a helmet all the time.

--
Neil Swingler

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 18:45:48 +0100, "PG"
wrote:

mega snip

So, can you explain again why a racer without a helmet (who seems to
be in a minority) is setting a bad example?
--
Champ

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:09:25 -0600, D wrote:

Champ wrote:
That's cos yanks are weenies :-)


snip "bad things can happen"

Sp, why don't you wear a helmet every day of your life? Actually, I'm
amazed you even dare to leave the house, what with it being so
dangerous out there.
--
Champ

Champ wrote:
Sp, why don't you wear a helmet every day of your life?


You know nothing about me or my occupation. Perhaps I do. Helmets are
used in several occupations: police, sports, construction, etc. The risk
of a head injury on a ski hill is far greater than sitting at a desk in
an office. If you are an adult you are free to choose your level of
risk. If you don't want to wear a helmet then don't.

Dean