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#11
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Great NNN light touring boots?
On Dec 17, 9:21 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote: On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:06:25 -0800 (PST), "Jeff Potter (of OutYourBackdoor.com)" wrote: Those are lame remarks, JFT, as usual. Why can't you be specific about my non-questions? Why can't you phrase your statements as statements rather than starting as questions that devolve into rants? Duh, because I am interesting in any discussion or answers to my questions. I'm not interested in your view of my posting style. That's true pointlessness. Why not discuss the subject? (There's a question, not a statement---but it probably has an obvious answer: you're not specific because you like to make inconsequent flames.) And, no, I haven't found good gloves yet. I do notice that weird water- absorbing faux-leather is on most gloves these days. My kid borrowed mine the other day and gave em back---"These are terrible! One snowball and they're drenched!" It seems like its their loss compared to gloves of 10 years ago. Glad to hear you're teaching your kid well -- he can look forward to complaining about how the modern world doesnt' suit them and that so many products suck worse than what they and you used back in the day. Great. He'll thank you for that. His hands got wet. He found some other gloves that worked better. These new gloves by a major maker also have the "lovely" feature of having plastic clips on the backs of the hands, right where ski straps go. I was wondering what was HURTING my hands as I skied. I was able to adjust the straps to ride exactly under the nubbins, but those things will have to be cut off. SMART DESIGN, huh? My brand new tour boots have a front cover zip that unzips when skiing. GREAT DESIGN. I note that my old tour package, which was new in 1990, weighed 6 lbs---boots, bindings, skis---and worked perfectly for over a decade of very hard use (jumping, icy tele and such). My new package for the same kind of skiing (same ski width) and same TOP place in the market weighs EIGHT POUNDS. What did I gain for all that extra weight? I've used it a few times so far and I can't notice any benefit. I do notice the weight. It's bad. I do notice that the stiff, heavy boots are trying to mess with my good technique. I grant that I may well be able to do tele turns and such better with this rig. Day-tourists rarely have such a desire---I would never chose a tour rig for such reasons. But the US market is small and thus quite limited. The stiffer boots might make handling easier for some people---but the extra weight offsets that. I have noticed that handling is definitely a bit awkward! I'm just not used to such heavy stuff. And my goals are to do several DAY-LONG challenging ski outings this winter. Will this weight be a problem? (I do pare down every ounce in my daybag on such outings. I use a 10-lb pack...and feel it! I'm going to go for using only a 6 lb fanny pack this year.) Should I just trust that the improvements in today's gear will show themselves somewhere along the way? I bought what I was told was the best stuff and what was available at my local pro shop. I picked NNN years ago. I'll keep giving this new gear a try. But I'll keep my eyes peeled on eBay for my old skis! Trends in XC ski stuff for sale in the USA are infamous for being awkward. (Like all the black clothing.) What is awkward about all black? Worry about getting hit by a car while skiing? Black works in NYC but not on ski trails. Take a look at how Scandi people dress when they ski. Of course black is fine on occasion. But the clarity of light and air in winter and the white background and green evergreens and nice warming huts and such beg for a wide range of color. --JP |
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#12
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Great NNN light touring boots?
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:30:31 -0800 (PST), "Jeff Potter (of
OutYourBackdoor.com)" wrote: Black works in NYC but not on ski trails. This is an idiotic statement. What is "works" or not works? Take a look at how Scandi people dress when they ski. Do you think they're better skiers or something because of the color of their clothes? Bizarre. |
#13
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Great NNN light touring boots?
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:30:31 -0800 (PST), "Jeff Potter (of
OutYourBackdoor.com)" wrote: On Dec 17, 9:21 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote: On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:06:25 -0800 (PST), "Jeff Potter (of OutYourBackdoor.com)" wrote: Those are lame remarks, JFT, as usual. Why can't you be specific about my non-questions? Why can't you phrase your statements as statements rather than starting as questions that devolve into rants? Duh, because I am interesting in any discussion or answers to my questions. I'm not interested in your view of my posting style. That's true pointlessness. Why not discuss the subject? (There's a question, not a statement---but it probably has an obvious answer: you're not specific because you like to make inconsequent flames.) And, no, I haven't found good gloves yet. I do notice that weird water- absorbing faux-leather is on most gloves these days. My kid borrowed mine the other day and gave em back---"These are terrible! One snowball and they're drenched!" It seems like its their loss compared to gloves of 10 years ago. Glad to hear you're teaching your kid well -- he can look forward to complaining about how the modern world doesnt' suit them and that so many products suck worse than what they and you used back in the day. Great. He'll thank you for that. His hands got wet. He found some other gloves that worked better. These new gloves by a major maker also have the "lovely" feature of having plastic clips on the backs of the hands, right where ski straps go. I was wondering what was HURTING my hands as I skied. I was able to adjust the straps to ride exactly under the nubbins, but those things will have to be cut off. SMART DESIGN, huh? My brand new tour boots have a front cover zip that unzips when skiing. GREAT DESIGN. I note that my old tour package, which was new in 1990, weighed 6 lbs---boots, bindings, skis---and worked perfectly for over a decade of very hard use (jumping, icy tele and such). My new package for the same kind of skiing (same ski width) and same TOP place in the market weighs EIGHT POUNDS. What did I gain for all that extra weight? I've used it a few times so far and I can't notice There are some great products on the market at the moment using artficial leather. Lots of people use them and like them. I had a pair of really high-end ski gloves in the 1980s that were real leather on the palms and, though decent, they're worse than stuff on the market now. But that sort of detail is besides the point. The bigger issue is your general point of view that newer stuff is lame, and fancier stuff is lame, and more "natural stuff" is better, which is often not true. And even if it is "true" in some strange way for you, it's simply silly to make the sort of blanket statements about X nowadays is bad. It simply cannot be that manufacturers are selling stuff that is so generally worse and people are buying it all. It's just not true. |
#14
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Great NNN light touring boots?
How about good quality, maybe even top of the line, combi boots?
Based on all of the 1000's of touring I've done on my full-on racing weight striding gear, I believe the combi boots and a slightly wider, but light weight, ski would be the ticket. As for color: black is an excellent default. I'm even an old codger who has been backcountry and groomed skiing for almost 40 years. Yes, I've skied in Norge and didn't feel one tiny iota of self consciousness in my black pants (I have 3 or 4 different types/ weights). I have black and other color tops and vests, but they all look good with the black pants. Nobody in Norway gave me a second look. A friend of mine said the same thing (as you) about cycling shorts after returning from a European trip this summer - the Americans were the only ones wearing black shorts. But the colored shorts were generally parts of full, (and I say butt ugly) "kits" which don't appeal to me at all. Give me black shorts and a bunch of generic and a few "team" style jerseys any day. Plus there's nothing uglier than stained and worn colored shorts. |
#15
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Great NNN light touring boots?
On Dec 19, 7:02 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote: On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:30:31 -0800 (PST), "Jeff Potter (of OutYourBackdoor.com)" wrote: Black works in NYC but not on ski trails. This is an idiotic statement. What is "works" or not works? It's fashion idiom, idiot. Take a look at how Scandi people dress when they ski. Do you think they're better skiers or something because of the color of their clothes? Ah no. I think they don't look ugly. Bizarre. ??? --JP |
#16
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Great NNN light touring boots?
On Dec 19, 7:06 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote: On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:30:31 -0800 (PST), "Jeff Potter (of OutYourBackdoor.com)" wrote: On Dec 17, 9:21 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote: On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:06:25 -0800 (PST), "Jeff Potter (of OutYourBackdoor.com)" wrote: Those are lame remarks, JFT, as usual. Why can't you be specific about my non-questions? Why can't you phrase your statements as statements rather than starting as questions that devolve into rants? Duh, because I am interesting in any discussion or answers to my questions. I'm not interested in your view of my posting style. That's true pointlessness. Why not discuss the subject? (There's a question, not a statement---but it probably has an obvious answer: you're not specific because you like to make inconsequent flames.) And, no, I haven't found good gloves yet. I do notice that weird water- absorbing faux-leather is on most gloves these days. My kid borrowed mine the other day and gave em back---"These are terrible! One snowball and they're drenched!" It seems like its their loss compared to gloves of 10 years ago. Glad to hear you're teaching your kid well -- he can look forward to complaining about how the modern world doesnt' suit them and that so many products suck worse than what they and you used back in the day. Great. He'll thank you for that. His hands got wet. He found some other gloves that worked better. These new gloves by a major maker also have the "lovely" feature of having plastic clips on the backs of the hands, right where ski straps go. I was wondering what was HURTING my hands as I skied. I was able to adjust the straps to ride exactly under the nubbins, but those things will have to be cut off. SMART DESIGN, huh? My brand new tour boots have a front cover zip that unzips when skiing. GREAT DESIGN. I note that my old tour package, which was new in 1990, weighed 6 lbs---boots, bindings, skis---and worked perfectly for over a decade of very hard use (jumping, icy tele and such). My new package for the same kind of skiing (same ski width) and same TOP place in the market weighs EIGHT POUNDS. What did I gain for all that extra weight? I've used it a few times so far and I can't notice There are some great products on the market at the moment using artficial leather. Lots of people use them and like them. I had a pair of really high-end ski gloves in the 1980s that were real leather on the palms and, though decent, they're worse than stuff on the market now. But that sort of detail is besides the point. The bigger issue is your general point of view that newer stuff is lame, and fancier stuff is lame, and more "natural stuff" is better, which is often not true. Ah, no. This has never been my view. And even if it is "true" in some strange way for you, it's simply silly to make the sort of blanket statements about X nowadays is bad. I specifically said that the fake-leather of my ski gloves absorbed water quickly. It's among the most absorbent materials I've seen---the opposite of water repellent. No blanket statement. My statements have been specific. --JP |
#17
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Great NNN light touring boots?
On Dec 19, 7:24 pm, Camilo wrote:
How about good quality, maybe even top of the line, combi boots? Based on all of the 1000's of touring I've done on my full-on racing weight striding gear, I believe the combi boots and a slightly wider, but light weight, ski would be the ticket. I can see improving support in tour boots but when touring with 60mm skis one will rarely skate. Combi support is different from touring support for control. The new bindings and plastic heel pockets plus a boot that goes to just over the ankle is probably all that's needed. Anything else will give you more weight than will be comfy for most multi-hour outings. Unless you're skating. (With 60mm skis?) As for color: black is an excellent default. I'm even an old codger who has been backcountry and groomed skiing for almost 40 years. Yes, I've skied in Norge and didn't feel one tiny iota of self consciousness in my black pants (I have 3 or 4 different types/ weights). I have black and other color tops and vests, but they all look good with the black pants. Nobody in Norway gave me a second look. Sure. Black disappears. It's a fine default. But most of an enthusiast market appreciates more than a default. A friend of mine said the same thing (as you) about cycling shorts after returning from a European trip this summer - the Americans were the only ones wearing black shorts. But the colored shorts were generally parts of full, (and I say butt ugly) "kits" which don't appeal to me at all. Give me black shorts and a bunch of generic and a few "team" style jerseys any day. Plus there's nothing uglier than stained and worn colored shorts. Cycling clothes are different. Shorts get dirty. But cycling gives lots of room to a variety of looks. The retro look is strong, too. The "just ride in regular clothes" look for casual day riding is pretty popular. This approach should continue on into XC skiing---with the difference being that rain and dirt aren't part of the equation. Black is awkwardly ubiquitous in US XC apparel. --JP |
#18
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Great NNN light touring boots?
PS:
Alpina seems to make a couple nice NNN tour boots. http://www.backcountry.com/store/gro...Ski-Boots.html Madshus has a nice moderate NNN boot available at webskis.com. http://webskis.com/product.php?produ...&cat=21&page=1 What's up with Rossi's thermal fit stuff? I'm having a hard time finding details. --JP |
#19
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Great NNN light touring boots?
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:35:52 -0800 (PST), "Jeff Potter (of
OutYourBackdoor.com)" wrote: On Dec 19, 7:02 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson wrote: On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:30:31 -0800 (PST), "Jeff Potter (of OutYourBackdoor.com)" wrote: Black works in NYC but not on ski trails. This is an idiotic statement. What is "works" or not works? It's fashion idiom, idiot. Take a look at how Scandi people dress when they ski. Do you think they're better skiers or something because of the color of their clothes? Ah no. I think they don't look ugly. So "works" means looking good, to you. Very sloppy use of language. |
#20
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Great NNN light touring boots?
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:38:17 -0800 (PST), "Jeff Potter (of
OutYourBackdoor.com)" wrote: I specifically said that the fake-leather of my ski gloves absorbed water quickly. It's among the most absorbent materials I've seen---the opposite of water repellent. No blanket statement. My statements have been specific. In that discussion I asked you why that mattered, if your hands are comftable. Rubber repels water too, you know. |
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