To pole or not to pole

bdubya wrote:
On 23 Jan 2005 06:33:50 -0800, "tiandiren"
wrote:


Who was your master?

I have learned Tai Chi from the nature, gravity, and the natural
body--I have no human teacher in that regard.
http://www.taomartialarts.com/tji/tj...iandchuan.html


I begin to understand you a little better now. You are saying that
you learned what you know of a 2500-year-old tradition from just
figuring it out for yourself, without ever studying having the
guidance of those more experienced and knowledgeable than yourself,
and now you consider yourself qualified to not only teach, but to
introduce a new style ("Shen-style") of your own creation?

Pre-zoomably, you also learned skiing "from the nature, gravity and
the natural body", without seeking guidance from those more
experienced and knowledgeable. Do either of these courses (inventing
your own Tai Chi style, or your own skiing style, without seeking the
accumulated wisdom of those who have gone before) strike you as just a
little bit arrogant?

I would strongly recommend that you seek out an accredited ski
instructor, and that you approach him or her with enough humility to
actually learn something. It will certainly improve your skiing, and
the experience of humbly seeking to learn from one more wise might do
you some good in a more general way.

bw

Well said.
VtSkier

In off-piste skiing on large mountains poles are frequently necessary.
Some snowboarders carry them too, or snowshoes. I always thought the
good thing about telemark was the flexibility it allows you in the
backcountry. Telemark without poles? Whaat!?

Also, skis & poles are tools one uses to move on the mountain. I
seriously doubt dumping the poles gives one any distinct advantages,
even while going downhill. Why do racers still use them?

Just check out the pictures:

Without poles:

http://www.taomartialarts.com/ski/ski_main.html
With Poles:

http://www.tanjapoutiainen.com/eng/etusivu/

On 25 Jan 2005 05:57:37 GMT, Sven Golly
wrote:
"Glasshoppah, try take pebble from hand."


"BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Gotcha again insect. Was not pebble. Was rock!!"

Accumulated wisdom of 3 seasons of Kung Fu.

"But grandfather, why do you call me Grasshopper?"

"Because you are ugly, like the insect"

-SNL sketch with David Carradine

bw

Bob Lee wrote:
tiandiren wrote:

Bob Lee wrote:
tiandiren wrote:

... (a lot of blacks 20 years ago are groomed to blues
nowadays.)
...

Bull****. Name two.

Sierra-at-Tahoe didn't groom the mountain 20 years ago, and
the West Bowl was totally backcountry.

But did they change the designation from black to blue like
you erroneously claim?

Yes, there was black Nob Hill is now the groomer's choice blue Lower
Main.


Define your "cruds," I may have a picture laying around
somewhere.
As you are so hot about cruds, let's see how you do it.
Don't tell me you are just another all-mouth.

Here's me teleing in some crud:
http://homepage.mac.com/saemisch/SJ2.../DSC_5568.html

You call that "crud"? Where is the steep?

Idiot. If you're just going to go into denial then **** off.

Just to see if you know "what" you are talking about, "define your
cruds," foul mouth.

Here's another picture of the run from a different perspective:
http://homepage.mac.com/saemisch/SJ2.../DSC_5617.html

Impressive, I only ski downhill, nowadays.


Here's me teleing in some powder:
http://homepage.mac.com/saemisch/SJ2.../DSC_5663.html

Nice pictures, and nice scenery, but because that you think you ski
tele better? Why?

Because I'm faster, smoother, prettier, have better style and
I ski steeps, powder and crud that you can't.

That sounded like a conceited bragging, (don't think you can tell the
speed from two still pictures, and you don't know whether or not you
can go even faster with flatboarding,) maybe you do, maybe you don't,
however, that's not what I'm interested about, it's your technique
which maybe you can share? "Most of us here are way past the blue
groomer stage and are open to any real instruction that will help our
technique," requested by snoig.

But the important thing is that
you are full of ****.

You may be a good skier, nonetheless, a small mind with a foul mouth.


I like my way better,

http://www.taomartialarts.com/ski/ski_p_tele4clh300.jpg

Heh. Well, if that makes you happy, that's fine. but that slope is
flat
and your poor technique will always hold you back and keep you from
skiing well, so you shouldn't be teaching it.

"Don't think you have a faintest idea of what Tai Chi is." And heed you
own advise, you shouldn't advice others on the things that you don't
know.


Now back out and look around on that site (Thanks again, Mikey!)
It's steep there, right?

Not sure about that, less than 30 degree, maybe?

Moron, you've just confirmed that you don't know a thing. The
*easiest*
run at Silverton is over 30 degrees, and that wasn't the easiest run.

http://www.silvertonmountain.com/geninfo.php

Here's another picture from that same run:
http://homepage.mac.com/saemisch/SJ2.../DSC_5617.html

Does that look less that 30 degrees?

Another one of crud and steeps that would kick your lame-ass
flatboarding without poles clear off the mountain:
http://homepage.mac.com/saemisch/SJ2.../DSC_5617.html

Impressive, I only ski downhill, nowadays.


Now listen to me

Very pompous,

Heh. pkb.

"A pen is mightier than a sword"? Gobbledygook.


- your flatboarding and skiing
without poles is crap, it will suck in steeps, powder, or crud.

For crap-head, maybe, not a problem for a real flatboarder.
http://www.taomartialarts.com/ski/ski_p_tele4.jpg

Sorry, but your left hand is way too high and too far back,
which maybe why you're struggling on such and easy slope.

"You may assume, even self-deceiving."

"Nothing is more stupid than one deceives oneself to deceive others."


You shouldn't be teaching those as goals - at best they are
suitable only as transitional techniques for beginners.

Flatboarding is the mainstay technique, without it, you cannot even
make a simple straight jump; is that why you guys stayed out of the
terrain parks?

"You guys"?

Yup, you "guys" cover and lick each other like a pack of coyotes.

No, that's not the reason I've stayed out of terrain parks.
I stay out of terrain parks because I think they're stupid.

"You don't really know how to drive unless you can survive the LA
traffic."--an ex-LA resident--


Now **** off, Ichin.

I was right, "you are a small mind with a foul mouth."

sting


Bob

[...]
Want a picture? Send me a photographer (paid), or better yet,
why
don't
you drop by so you can verify it yourself?

I'm thinking about it - will you be in the Tahoe area in late
Feb or March?

I'll be here.

Will you come to Taos anytime soon?

Not likely.


Maybe you know the place, but you don't know flatboarding, nor
you
know
tele skiing, and you draw the conclusion based on the facts
that
you
don't know.

I know tele, and I know you're full of ****.

Don't think people can hear you well with your mouth full of ****.
sting


Bob

VtSkier wrote:
tiandiren wrote:
VtSkier wrote:
tiandiren wrote:
Bob Lee wrote:
tiandiren wrote:

... (a lot of blacks 20 years ago are groomed to blues
nowadays.)

Bull****. Name two.

Sierra-at-Tahoe didn't groom the mountain 20 years ago, and
the West Bowl was totally backcountry.

Define your "cruds," I may have a picture laying around
somewhere. As you are so hot about cruds, let's see how
you do it. Don't tell me you are just another all-mouth.

Here's me teleing in some crud:
http://homepage.mac.com/saemisch/SJ2.../DSC_5568.html

You call that "crud"? Where is the steep?


Next picture idiot!

The so-called 30 degrees one? Better yet, define your "crud."

Here's me teleing in some powder:
http://homepage.mac.com/saemisch/SJ2.../DSC_5663.html

Nice pictures, and nice scenery, but because that you think
you ski tele better? Why?

I like my way better,

Well, finally a picture that looks like something.
It also looks "posed".

Yup, that's called "stillness in motion."

Har!

"If you don't laugh, it ain't Tai Chi."


What is it with those arms,

The natural reflection/balance of gravity, Tai Chi Skiing.

Arms up raises center of gravity.

Not if you hold down your legs.


and worse, you are not looking where you are going.

Yes, a Tai Chi Skier knows where he is at internally.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah...

Silly.

I think maybe I'll just stay out of your way.

Probably you should.


Even when I do ski without poles, my hands are low
AND out in front of me.

Yup, for you ski with poles, even you don't use they still imagine
that
you are holding them? That's static, and sterile looking.

Don't care how it "looks", weight, cg, hands are low and
forward. It's effective.

It'll be more effective if you utilize your "whole" body, it is called
"dynamic balance."


http://www.taomartialarts.com/ski/ski_p_tele4clh300.jpg

Is this person actually in motion?

"Spot landing."

I thought not.

What makes you thought so?


Those terribly long cross country poles again.

They were needed in backcountry. Back in the 70s and early 80s, the
"big name" in the sport was called "self-propel," people don't ride
helicopters or snowmobiles to the mountaintop, they hike
backcountry to
the mountaintop then teled down, at least, that was what was in
Alaska.

Ah, poles do have a use?

Didn't say poles have no use, as you said, you can use them to beat up
an arrogant snowboarder and end up in jail with; the subject was/is "to
pole or not to pole" in downhill skiing, and the topic is the
principles and techniques of how to use them. You twist and turn the
words to justify your sour-grape ego.

BTW ask Bob how he gets
around in the back country.
?

SUV?


Now back out and look around on that site (Thanks again,
Mikey!)It's steep there, right?

Not sure about that, less than 30 degree, maybe?

Hmmm, 30 degrees is pretty steep.

And they chewed me on 40+ degrees? You guys are double
standard hypocrites.

Where was 40+ degrees? We aren't talking percent
again are we?

The "face" of Heavenly, and the upper part of "Upper Dynamic."


Now listen to me

Very pompous,

The pot calls the kettle black.

"A pen is mightier than a sword"? Gobbledygook.


I speak of truth, and you wrangle on semantics.

You call names,

"I don't attack but state the facts; if one does feel being attacked
that's because the true reality bites."

I adjust aim.

Not that you are a lousy aim, as you willfully aim, "you call names";
when you call names, you get whiplash.


- your flatboarding and skiing
without poles is crap, it will suck in steeps, powder, or crud.

For crap-head, maybe, not a problem for a real flatboarder.
http://www.taomartialarts.com/ski/ski_p_tele4.jpg

You shouldn't be teaching those as goals - at best they
are suitable only as transitional techniques for beginners.

Flatboarding is the mainstay technique, without it, you
cannot even make a simple straight jump; is that why you
guys stayed out of the terrain parks?

We stay out of terrain parks because we know their
real name, "trauma parks". It also might be because
we don't like crowds. It might also be because we
like to ski, and not compress our spines.

Or just fancy words to say you cannot do it.

Or just fancy words to say that it holds
no appeal for me.

Then, your knowledge [of skiing] has holes in it.


[...]

Want a picture? Send me a photographer (paid), or better
yet, why don't you drop by so you can verify it yourself?

I'm thinking about it - will you be in the Tahoe area in
late Feb or March?

I'll be here.

Will you come to Taos anytime soon?

Not likely.

Maybe you know the place, but you don't know flatboarding, nor
you know tele skiing, and you draw the conclusion based
on the facts that you don't know.

I know tele, and I know you're full of ****.

Don't think people can hear you well with your mouth full of ****.

Children, CHILDREN, let's keep it clean, this IS
a family newsgroup, after all.

"Whether or not you can accommodate a [proven] new idea or
technique is depended on the maturity of your knowledge and
discipline."

tiendiren

You've surrounded that by quotes, care to tell us who
the originator is?

I did, to respond your pompous display of knowledgeable grandpa figure.


In all fairness to you, you may well have a nifty
way to get beginners on the right track, but maybe
not too.

And it's a fair example of your pompous display of "knowledgeable
grandpa figure" [and never thought of whether or not you qualify?]; in
your biased prejudice, it's fair to say that you put down my skills as
for beginners to insinuate that my technique [though you never really
know what my technique is] is of inferior, only to satisfy your
self-righteous ego.

But, please, don't tell advanced skiers
that your technique, as demonstrated here by pictures
showing skiers doing things badly,

Just how "advanced" are you? It seems that you just talk yourself out
of "advanced skiers" loop, and you don't know ski flat-board is the
foundation of high-level skiing, and it is used by all high-level
downhill racers, jumpers, and park sliders?

that your technique
is an end-all be-all for everybody.

Never did claim that, your "frame me, fame me, and flame me" attempts
are obvious.

Not everybody can learn/do flat-board, but if you want a smooth and
stealth glide without jerky pole-plants to break the flow, flatboarding
is it.

sting


VtSkier

"tiandiren" wrote in message

They were needed in backcountry. Back in the 70s and early 80s, the
"big name" in the sport was called "self-propel," people don't ride
helicopters or snowmobiles to the mountaintop, they hike backcountry to
the mountaintop then teled down, at least, that was what was in Alaska.


Bull****.
I'm from Alaska.
from 69 through 88 and there was no big name called self propel.

more bull**** on the hike to tele down.
maybe on flat top where one could drive within hiking distance and then ski
..
but in general there are very few mountains in Alaska that can just be
hiked.

More bull****
On the Heli skiing. we were dropping in from 76 and on.
as far as the local areas went getting a sled ride around the back sides up
was a big thing.

"tiandiren" wrote in message

Not everybody can learn/do flat-board, but if you want a smooth and
stealth glide without jerky pole-plants to break the flow, flatboarding
is it.

You should try this thing called skiing.
nothing jerky about once you progress beyond the beginner stage your at.

VtSkier wrote:

tiandiren wrote:
http://www.taomartialarts.com/ski/ski_p_tele4clh300.jpg

Is this person actually in motion? Those terribly long
cross country poles again.

Very interesting photo. It looked like a fencing pose, but I really
can't figure out the purpose of the kneepads unless it involves long
gondola rides in sparsely-populated areas.

--
Cheers,
Bev
_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_
When you stop bitching, you start dying.

Bob Lee wrote:
tiandiren wrote:

Bob Lee wrote:
[...]
Because I'm faster, smoother, prettier, have better style and
I ski steeps, powder and crud that you can't.

That sounded like a conceited bragging,

Hey, you asked.

[...]
however, that's not what I'm interested about, it's your
technique which maybe you can share?

What do you want to know? Be specific.

But since I'm thinking of it, using poles to set up and flow
from one turn to the next by getting yourself positioned and
moving into the transition (edge change) for the next turn is
a good technique.

Do you "pull" or "push" the poles, that is, downhill poling or uphill
poling, respectively?

Poles are useful for timing in your turns.

Timing, when to do it? at the beginning of the turn, middle of the
turn, or the end of the turn?

A (proper) pole plant stores
energy and sets you up for short radius turns - it's crucial
to making the skis come around easily in difficult snow.

For rapid short radius turns, try mono-turn; that is, one tele turn and
one parallel turn link together. Pole-plant remains optional.

They are also useful in
crud to help you maintain an aggressive downhill movement and
push up off your skis - remember to bring your outside hand
sharply forward, down the hill. THat will help make turns in
crud and powder more stable.

"Generally, in tele, it is the downhill ski that is weighed and
produces the turn, the "free heel" uphill ski controls the radius of
the turn, hence controls the speed as well.

The general experience is that a weighed ski cannot be moved (changing
direction) easily. So, to link the turns, the uphill ski (which has
less weight) is slide forward ahead of the downhill ski, and forms an
asymmetric wedge with the downhill ski, then is weighed to produce the
turn. Yes, point it (the uphill ski) at the fall line makes the turning
easier and faster.

http://taomartialarts.com/ski/ski_prin_tech.html

However, the tricky part is that to weigh on a ski that is pointed
straight downhill generates much faster speed than the skier can shift
the weight over easily. The result is that the skier would be behind
the ski and chasing it. So, some strong skiers would hop and switch
both skis and set them into the asymmetric wedge while both skis are
unweighed. This technique is very effective, but tiring.

The uphill ski turning, in tele, I would do is instead of moving the
uphill ski forward to form the wedge, I bring the downhill ski backward
(like moonwalk?). At this point, the uphill ski is weighed on, pointed
at the fall line, so the switch is more stable and the turning [as well
as the turning sequence] remains fast this way."--my way--


Heh. Well, if that makes you happy, that's fine. but that
slope is flat and your poor technique will always hold you
back and keep you from skiing well, so you shouldn't be
teaching it.

"Don't think you have a faintest idea of what Tai Chi is."
And heed you own advise, you shouldn't advice others on the
things that you don't know.

Tai chi? Another bunny with a pancake on it's head for you.

Nice delusion.


No, that's not the reason I've stayed out of terrain parks.
I stay out of terrain parks because I think they're stupid.

"You don't really know how to drive unless you can survive
the LA traffic."--an ex-LA resident--

Heh. I grew up in LA, and I left because it was stupid to live
there.

Maybe, while the US economic is flat, but LA market is hot; though I
won't live in there.

And that person quoted probably couldn't drive worth a ****
off road, on bad roads, or in snow.

She was an ex-Heavenly patroller, and driving an oversize full-time
4X4.

My point being, don't think that someone is a
poor skier because they don't ski in the trauma parks.

My point being, don't think someone is a poor skier because they don't
ski cruds.

The spirit and the skills of the skier is reflected on the line he/she
left behind.


Now **** off, Ichin.

That's still good advice.
Still playing your little thing in public, eh?

sting


Bob