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Helmets!



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 8th 05, 06:28 PM
John Ricketts
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Default Helmets!

I aready sent this but it seems to have got lost in the ether....(so sorry
if you got it twice!)

Taking girls with us to Cham this year....what's the legal position
regarding ski helmets for 12 year olds? France/Italy and Switzerland?

Thanks,

John


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  #2  
Old January 8th 05, 06:40 PM
PG
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Default


"John Ricketts" wrote in message
...
|I aready sent this but it seems to have got lost in the ether....(so
sorry
| if you got it twice!)
|
| Taking girls with us to Cham this year....what's the legal position
| regarding ski helmets for 12 year olds? France/Italy and Switzerland?
|

Does it matter? Just avoid the hassle of arguing with them and tell'em
it's illegal not to wear them My 12 year old daughter
(http://tinyurl.com/4nnqt) wouldn't go on the piste without one. And
these days it's seen to be pretty cool to have one, fortunately.

It's not compulsory in France, although you see signs telling people
they should have one as part of this year's safety campaign. Some ski
schools refuse to take kids without them (small independents mainly),
and as far as I know the ESF hasn't changed their position from it being
"highly advisable".

Pete - SNOWeSCAPE
http://bsm.alpesprovence.net


  #3  
Old January 8th 05, 09:08 PM
Alun Jenkins
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Default


It's not compulsory in France, although you see signs telling people
they should have one as part of this year's safety campaign. Some ski
schools refuse to take kids without them (small independents mainly),
and as far as I know the ESF hasn't changed their position from it being
"highly advisable".


Also if you use the carte neige insurance it will be void with no helmet
this year.

A
  #4  
Old January 8th 05, 09:45 PM
John Ricketts
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Default

Nice picture!....granted, I wouldn't contemplate racing without one, but
isn't this just the nanny state philosophy kicking in yet again? I reckon
its less about protecting the individual than about minimising the risk of
litigation!

Before long you'll have to wear a space suit to walk to the shops in case
you trip over the pavement!

But that said, I guess you're right and I'll just have to bite the bullet
and fork out (yet another!) 60 quid for two helmets.... :-(


"PG" wrote in message
...

"John Ricketts" wrote in message
...
|I aready sent this but it seems to have got lost in the ether....(so
sorry
| if you got it twice!)
|
| Taking girls with us to Cham this year....what's the legal position
| regarding ski helmets for 12 year olds? France/Italy and Switzerland?
|

Does it matter? Just avoid the hassle of arguing with them and tell'em
it's illegal not to wear them My 12 year old daughter
(http://tinyurl.com/4nnqt) wouldn't go on the piste without one. And
these days it's seen to be pretty cool to have one, fortunately.

It's not compulsory in France, although you see signs telling people
they should have one as part of this year's safety campaign. Some ski
schools refuse to take kids without them (small independents mainly),
and as far as I know the ESF hasn't changed their position from it being
"highly advisable".

Pete - SNOWeSCAPE
http://bsm.alpesprovence.net




  #5  
Old January 9th 05, 12:52 PM
Joe Roach
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Default

snip

But that said, I guess you're right and I'll just have to bite the bullet
and fork out (yet another!) 60 quid for two helmets.... :-(


Helmets are compulsory for under 14 year olds in Italy (how it is enforced
is another matter). That said, my teenage boys won't ski without helmets
irrespective of legal/insurance requirements and are now in adult sizes at
£60 each rather than a pair! It's money well spent (IMHO).

Joe.


  #6  
Old January 9th 05, 01:27 PM
PG
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Default


"David Mahon" wrote in message
...
| In article , Séan
| writes
|
| Lets be sensible for a moment.....
| The potential for serious injury, and I'm talking about to your
childs
| brain, is greatly increased whilst skiing, unlike walking to the
shops!
| Its not about 'litigtion' or what she might do to herself, its all
the
| other idiots skiing on the edge of control and about to lose it at
the next
| bump in the snow.
|
| We all know that it is folly to let your child ride a bike without a
helmet
| for the same reason.
|
| Cycle helmets may actually be counter productive. There is good
evidence
| that enforcing the use of cycle helmets stops youngsters cycling,
| promotes obesity and leads to health detriment. There's also very
| little, if any, reduction of deaths.
|
| Every year you hear a tragic story of some youngster (skier/boarder)
killed
| due to head injury.
|
| Shealy et al conclude "...the findings are not particularly supportive
| of the notion that wearing helmets will significantly reduce the
number
| of fatalities in winter snowsports". This was supported by a
| presentation at the last ISSS meeting by the Chief Medical Examiner
for
| the state of Vermont, USA - Dr Paul L. Morrow. Dr Morrow was of the
| opinion that of 54 deaths at commercial ski areas in Vermont from
| 1979/80 to 1997/98, helmets would not have been of any particular
value
| in saving any of the lives lost - as the degree of trauma simply
| overwhelmed any benefits that the helmet might convey in an impact. To
| quote Shealy et al again - a team of highly respected ski injury
| researchers - "On the basis of results to date, there is no clear
| evidence that helmets have been shown to be an effective means of
| reducing fatalities in alpine sports".
|
| So it looks like the issue's not settled there either.

Hell, following that logic, let's stop the compulsory wearing of
seatbelts while we're about it! What makes cyclists obese is wearing a
helmet?!! Come on, you've got to be kidding!

That particular study only mentions fatalities. Extremely important too
is severe brain trauma not resulting in death, of varying degrees of
severity. It's plain obvious to anyone who spends a lot of time on the
slopes (and I do so as a French race club director with kids that spend
months on the slopes each year, both racing and free skiing) that the
wearing of a helmet has prevented numerous injuries, minor and major.
Obviously there's a limit to how effective they can be, and there will
always be exceptions to the rule.

Pete
www.skiclublesarcs.com


  #7  
Old January 9th 05, 01:55 PM
Steve Haigh
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Default

snip

Enough!

There's too much of this crap on uk.rec.cycling. Mention helmets and
suddenly everyone seems to have a Ph.D in neurology, psycology,
statistics and the mechanics of accidents. They (u.r.cycling) talk a
load of partialy informed rubbish about helmets, so if you want that
kind of debate go there. Leave it out of this group, please.

Lets stick to the OP's question for once. That said, I don't know the
answer to his question so I'll shut up now.
  #8  
Old January 9th 05, 02:40 PM
PG
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Default


"Steve Haigh" wrote in message
...
| snip
|
| Enough!
|
| There's too much of this crap on uk.rec.cycling.

snip

Enough!

If you don't want to talk about it, start a thread of your own about
something else. It's a valid topic, don't read it if you're not
interested. Those of us with kids should consider the implications of
wearing helmets on the slopes, and some of us have studied the issue in
considerable detail.

Pete


  #9  
Old January 9th 05, 05:07 PM
Steve Haigh
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Default

PG wrote:

"Steve Haigh" wrote in message
...
| snip
|
| Enough!
|
| There's too much of this crap on uk.rec.cycling.

snip

Enough!

If you don't want to talk about it, start a thread of your own about
something else. It's a valid topic, don't read it if you're not
interested. Those of us with kids should consider the implications of
wearing helmets on the slopes, and some of us have studied the issue in
considerable detail.


Just trying to save this group fom the pointless arguments which plague
other groups. It's got nothing to do with having kids (why shouldn't
adults wear them?), or indeed wearing helmets at all, it has got
everything to do with the group decending into a flame war of pointless
drivel which this topic will lead to.

To save you the wait here's the arguments that we'll see:

Helmets work.
No they don't.
Yes they do.
They make you too confident and you'll take more risks.
So why not put spikes on steering wheel to stop drivers being over
confident. etc etc (variations exist on this one, always nice to
spot a new one once in a while).
But you'd slow down if you didn't wear one.
No I wouldn't
Yes you would.
Stats prove it.
No they don't.
I know someone who was wearing a helmet and it got caught on a
t-bar and pulled their head clean off, so helmets are
dangerous.
He/She was an idiot.
Blah
Blah
....
....


Eventually someone calls someone else a Nazi and then it starts getting
all personal. Typically these threads extend to a couple if hundred
posts and if you bothered to read them all you'd get to the end and
realise you have learned a sum total of nothing about the topic in question.

Just trying to save you the effort, because before you know it you'll
have wasted hours of you life on this topic. The OP asked what the law
was on kids wearing helmets in Europe, and already we've got references
to childhood obesity and people citing single academic papers as total
and complete proof of their own particlaur view.

But you're right I don't have to read it and I'm not going to. I'll do
what I do on the other group and just kill every thread in my reader
that starts off this way.
  #10  
Old January 9th 05, 07:14 PM
PG
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Steve Haigh" wrote in message
...
| PG wrote:
|
| "Steve Haigh" wrote in message
| ...

|
| But you're right I don't have to read it and I'm not going to. I'll do
| what I do on the other group and just kill every thread in my reader
| that starts off this way.

Well hurry up and do it so the ng can get on with a bit of harmless
debate about an important issue, without being dragged off course by
pointless interventions.

Pete


 




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