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#1
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Used Ski Prices
The people on this newsgroup have been very supportive of my ski tuning
business venture and I appreciate the feedback I've received from this forum a great deal. So much, in fact, that I'm hoping you guys can help me on a fairly specific issue. I need a decent "formula" for assigning a value to used skis. Here's the background: Next season I'll have a limited (as in small) retail operation. It'll actually be a separate business from the grinding operation on paper. But I'll be working with Atomic, Fischer and Madshus selling hand-selected skis. As some of you may recall from earlier posts, I'd like to offer customers credit for their used and possibly mis-fit skis toward new well-fit skis. The trick is to figure out how much to offer. This is difficult because I'm not terribly familiar with the used-ski market. And I think I'll be adding significant value to the existing used ski market since everything will be flex tested and comprehensively refreshed on the grinder. I've got a formula worked out and I'd really like to hear your thoughts about it. I've got three main concerns. I want to be fair to the seller - ensure that they're getting good value for their used equipment. I want to be fair to the buyer - ensure that they get the right ski at significant savings over new-ski prices. And I want to be fair to myself - ensure that I'm appropriately compensated for my time evaluating, grinding, and flex-fitting the ski for the next customer. At this point I'm trying to build a $100 margin for myself into each pair of skis. This has to be upfront knowledge. I work hard for the money I make, and while this number may have to go down I can't afford to run the program too cheaply. The formula is in the form of a series of adjustments based on a careful inspection. I'll go through them in order. This may take just a little while. I'll use a couple of hypothetical pairs of skis for illustration. Note: It is assumed that all skis are top-model racing skis that meet a certain standard of quality. I don't like working with crap, and I'll turn stuff down if it's not worth the time. Hypothetical pair 1: '03 Fischer skatecut Hypothetical pair 2: '98 Madshus Classic Starting Value: Used ski devaluation - 30% As soon as you put binding holes in a ski I'm assuming that its value in the marketplace drops to 70% of its original retail value assuming it shows no signs of additional wear. I've arrived at this number by trying out a whole bunch of different approaches. This just ended up looking about right. But I'm open to suggestions. Pair 1 - $429 X 70% = $300.30 Pair 2 - $379 X 70% = $265.30 These numbers serve as "starting" values for any further adjustments. Some skis may have an alternative start value. For instance, the original Atomic Beta Race skate skis were an interesting experiment but they have been surpassed by so far that I would hesitate to asign a starting value of $265 to them. Maybe something closer to $200. Adjustment 1: Generation What generation (graphic/construction) is the ski? Current: No adjustment Last: -10% Previous: -20% "Old": -30% This adjustment is meant to take into consideration primarily the "model year" concerns of changing technology and (let's face it) graphics. Pair 1: Last generation, -10% Pair 2: "Old", -30% Adjustment 2: Evaluation This is where I flex test the ski and take a guess at its performance characteristics and desirability. Categories are - Perfect (a "special" ski): +10% (yup - value added) Good: No adjustment (well matched, up to expectation, but nothing remarkable) Fair: -5% (maybe they're not perfectly matched, or one wax pocket is a bit longer, but basically they're a pair and they'll work well) Poor: -25% (a ski that would have to be sold with a disclaimer, and is likely to be rejected in any case) This should be a big category, but the vast majority of skis will fit into the "good" and "fair" categories, so it doesn't end up doing much. Pair 1: "Good", no adjustment, still -10% Pair 2: "Fair", -5%, now -35% Adjustment 3: Base Perfect: No adjustment - Freshly ground, very little work necessary to rehabilitate the ski. Good: -5% - normal use, a few scratches but a grind will make them "perfect". Fair: -10% - heavy use, a lot of work involved to grind them, some scratches may not come out. Poor: -20% - trashed, definitely won't look pretty again, but can be made skiable and maybe race worthy. Pair 1: "Good", -5%, now -15% Pair 2: "Poor", -20%, now -55% Adjustment 4: Cosmetic How do they look? Did this person turtle-wax their skis, or leave them in the back of the pickup truck all winter? Perfect: +5% Good: no adjustment Fair: -5% Poor: - 20% Pair 1: "Perfect", +5%, now -10% Pair 2: "Fair", -5%, now -60% Adjustment 5: Flex/Size Evaluation aside, are these things pretty common or are they extremely soft/hard, or do they have a really strange combination of length and flex characteristics? In other words, will I ever find a buyer for these things? Common: no adjustment Odd: - 5% Ra - 10% Pair 1: Common, no adjustment, Still -10% resulting in a value of: $300.30 x 90%= $270.27 Pair 2: Common, no adjustment, Still -60% resulting in a value of: $265.30 x 40%= $106.12 Adjustment 6: Bindings Pilot in excellent condition: +$75 Pilot in fair condition: +$50 Other in excellent condition: +$50 Other in fair condition: +$30 Pair 1: Pilot in excellent condition brings the value to $270.27+$75 = $345 Pair 2: NNN in fair condition brings the value to $136 OK - so here's the test. Say you're the seller. After subtracting my margin I'm going to offer you $245 for the pretty new and well cared-for Fischers and $36 for the old and relatively beat-up Madshus. Is this fair? Probably not worth the shipping on the Madshus, but heck, if you're sending the Fischers anyway maybe they're easy to get rid of. Are we in the ball-park? Now, say you're shopping for some used skis. These things have been comprehensively evaluated - you know exactly what you're getting and what to expect from them, and they've been ground to your specifications. Is that pair of Fischers worth $345? New ones would run you about $530 by the time you've got bindings on them. How about the Madshus? Would you pay $136 for a five year-old pair of skis that have had some serious use, but have been lovingly restored to the best condition they'll ever see again? Please, let me know if you have any suggestions for adjustments to this system. I think the program could work well if it's set-up right. I think there will be a market for reconditioned used skis. But am I hoping to get too much out of this by making it (marginally) profitable? Thanks for your time. Zach http://www.engineeredtuning.net/ |
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#2
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Used Ski Prices
I don't think it needs to be that complicated. In the Twin Cities,
fast, used, top end racing skis seem to sit at about $150 on the www.skinnyski.com. They move at $125 though. Once you buy the skis and put your time into them to make them fast, you could advertise them at $199-$250 or so in my opinion. Not sure if that is what you're looking for... I think your reputation is worth at least that. Jay Tegeder "Keep training, lycra never lies!" JT "Zachary Caldwell" wrote in message ... The people on this newsgroup have been very supportive of my ski tuning business venture and I appreciate the feedback I've received from this forum a great deal. So much, in fact, that I'm hoping you guys can help me on a fairly specific issue. I need a decent "formula" for assigning a value to used skis. Here's the background: Next season I'll have a limited (as in small) retail operation. It'll actually be a separate business from the grinding operation on paper. But I'll be working with Atomic, Fischer and Madshus selling hand-selected skis. As some of you may recall from earlier posts, I'd like to offer customers credit for their used and possibly mis-fit skis toward new well-fit skis. The trick is to figure out how much to offer. This is difficult because I'm not terribly familiar with the used-ski market. And I think I'll be adding significant value to the existing used ski market since everything will be flex tested and comprehensively refreshed on the grinder. I've got a formula worked out and I'd really like to hear your thoughts about it. I've got three main concerns. I want to be fair to the seller - ensure that they're getting good value for their used equipment. I want to be fair to the buyer - ensure that they get the right ski at significant savings over new-ski prices. And I want to be fair to myself - ensure that I'm appropriately compensated for my time evaluating, grinding, and flex-fitting the ski for the next customer. At this point I'm trying to build a $100 margin for myself into each pair of skis. This has to be upfront knowledge. I work hard for the money I make, and while this number may have to go down I can't afford to run the program too cheaply. The formula is in the form of a series of adjustments based on a careful inspection. I'll go through them in order. This may take just a little while. I'll use a couple of hypothetical pairs of skis for illustration. Note: It is assumed that all skis are top-model racing skis that meet a certain standard of quality. I don't like working with crap, and I'll turn stuff down if it's not worth the time. Hypothetical pair 1: '03 Fischer skatecut Hypothetical pair 2: '98 Madshus Classic Starting Value: Used ski devaluation - 30% As soon as you put binding holes in a ski I'm assuming that its value in the marketplace drops to 70% of its original retail value assuming it shows no signs of additional wear. I've arrived at this number by trying out a whole bunch of different approaches. This just ended up looking about right. But I'm open to suggestions. Pair 1 - $429 X 70% = $300.30 Pair 2 - $379 X 70% = $265.30 These numbers serve as "starting" values for any further adjustments. Some skis may have an alternative start value. For instance, the original Atomic Beta Race skate skis were an interesting experiment but they have been surpassed by so far that I would hesitate to asign a starting value of $265 to them. Maybe something closer to $200. Adjustment 1: Generation What generation (graphic/construction) is the ski? Current: No adjustment Last: -10% Previous: -20% "Old": -30% This adjustment is meant to take into consideration primarily the "model year" concerns of changing technology and (let's face it) graphics. Pair 1: Last generation, -10% Pair 2: "Old", -30% Adjustment 2: Evaluation This is where I flex test the ski and take a guess at its performance characteristics and desirability. Categories are - Perfect (a "special" ski): +10% (yup - value added) Good: No adjustment (well matched, up to expectation, but nothing remarkable) Fair: -5% (maybe they're not perfectly matched, or one wax pocket is a bit longer, but basically they're a pair and they'll work well) Poor: -25% (a ski that would have to be sold with a disclaimer, and is likely to be rejected in any case) This should be a big category, but the vast majority of skis will fit into the "good" and "fair" categories, so it doesn't end up doing much. Pair 1: "Good", no adjustment, still -10% Pair 2: "Fair", -5%, now -35% Adjustment 3: Base Perfect: No adjustment - Freshly ground, very little work necessary to rehabilitate the ski. Good: -5% - normal use, a few scratches but a grind will make them "perfect". Fair: -10% - heavy use, a lot of work involved to grind them, some scratches may not come out. Poor: -20% - trashed, definitely won't look pretty again, but can be made skiable and maybe race worthy. Pair 1: "Good", -5%, now -15% Pair 2: "Poor", -20%, now -55% Adjustment 4: Cosmetic How do they look? Did this person turtle-wax their skis, or leave them in the back of the pickup truck all winter? Perfect: +5% Good: no adjustment Fair: -5% Poor: - 20% Pair 1: "Perfect", +5%, now -10% Pair 2: "Fair", -5%, now -60% Adjustment 5: Flex/Size Evaluation aside, are these things pretty common or are they extremely soft/hard, or do they have a really strange combination of length and flex characteristics? In other words, will I ever find a buyer for these things? Common: no adjustment Odd: - 5% Ra - 10% Pair 1: Common, no adjustment, Still -10% resulting in a value of: $300.30 x 90%= $270.27 Pair 2: Common, no adjustment, Still -60% resulting in a value of: $265.30 x 40%= $106.12 Adjustment 6: Bindings Pilot in excellent condition: +$75 Pilot in fair condition: +$50 Other in excellent condition: +$50 Other in fair condition: +$30 Pair 1: Pilot in excellent condition brings the value to $270.27+$75 = $345 Pair 2: NNN in fair condition brings the value to $136 OK - so here's the test. Say you're the seller. After subtracting my margin I'm going to offer you $245 for the pretty new and well cared-for Fischers and $36 for the old and relatively beat-up Madshus. Is this fair? Probably not worth the shipping on the Madshus, but heck, if you're sending the Fischers anyway maybe they're easy to get rid of. Are we in the ball-park? Now, say you're shopping for some used skis. These things have been comprehensively evaluated - you know exactly what you're getting and what to expect from them, and they've been ground to your specifications. Is that pair of Fischers worth $345? New ones would run you about $530 by the time you've got bindings on them. How about the Madshus? Would you pay $136 for a five year-old pair of skis that have had some serious use, but have been lovingly restored to the best condition they'll ever see again? Please, let me know if you have any suggestions for adjustments to this system. I think the program could work well if it's set-up right. I think there will be a market for reconditioned used skis. But am I hoping to get too much out of this by making it (marginally) profitable? Thanks for your time. Zach http://www.engineeredtuning.net/ |
#3
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Used Ski Prices
Hi Zach,
If that madshus is flexed for 135lb skier on blue wax conditions, I'll take it right now :-) Bob "Zachary Caldwell" wrote in message ... The people on this newsgroup have been very supportive of my ski tuning business venture and I appreciate the feedback I've received from this forum a great deal. So much, in fact, that I'm hoping you guys can help me on a fairly specific issue. I need a decent "formula" for assigning a value to used skis. Here's the background: Next season I'll have a limited (as in small) retail operation. It'll actually be a separate business from the grinding operation on paper. But I'll be working with Atomic, Fischer and Madshus selling hand-selected skis. As some of you may recall from earlier posts, I'd like to offer customers credit for their used and possibly mis-fit skis toward new well-fit skis. The trick is to figure out how much to offer. This is difficult because I'm not terribly familiar with the used-ski market. And I think I'll be adding significant value to the existing used ski market since everything will be flex tested and comprehensively refreshed on the grinder. I've got a formula worked out and I'd really like to hear your thoughts about it. I've got three main concerns. I want to be fair to the seller - ensure that they're getting good value for their used equipment. I want to be fair to the buyer - ensure that they get the right ski at significant savings over new-ski prices. And I want to be fair to myself - ensure that I'm appropriately compensated for my time evaluating, grinding, and flex-fitting the ski for the next customer. At this point I'm trying to build a $100 margin for myself into each pair of skis. This has to be upfront knowledge. I work hard for the money I make, and while this number may have to go down I can't afford to run the program too cheaply. The formula is in the form of a series of adjustments based on a careful inspection. I'll go through them in order. This may take just a little while. I'll use a couple of hypothetical pairs of skis for illustration. Note: It is assumed that all skis are top-model racing skis that meet a certain standard of quality. I don't like working with crap, and I'll turn stuff down if it's not worth the time. Hypothetical pair 1: '03 Fischer skatecut Hypothetical pair 2: '98 Madshus Classic Starting Value: Used ski devaluation - 30% As soon as you put binding holes in a ski I'm assuming that its value in the marketplace drops to 70% of its original retail value assuming it shows no signs of additional wear. I've arrived at this number by trying out a whole bunch of different approaches. This just ended up looking about right. But I'm open to suggestions. Pair 1 - $429 X 70% = $300.30 Pair 2 - $379 X 70% = $265.30 These numbers serve as "starting" values for any further adjustments. Some skis may have an alternative start value. For instance, the original Atomic Beta Race skate skis were an interesting experiment but they have been surpassed by so far that I would hesitate to asign a starting value of $265 to them. Maybe something closer to $200. Adjustment 1: Generation What generation (graphic/construction) is the ski? Current: No adjustment Last: -10% Previous: -20% "Old": -30% This adjustment is meant to take into consideration primarily the "model year" concerns of changing technology and (let's face it) graphics. Pair 1: Last generation, -10% Pair 2: "Old", -30% Adjustment 2: Evaluation This is where I flex test the ski and take a guess at its performance characteristics and desirability. Categories are - Perfect (a "special" ski): +10% (yup - value added) Good: No adjustment (well matched, up to expectation, but nothing remarkable) Fair: -5% (maybe they're not perfectly matched, or one wax pocket is a bit longer, but basically they're a pair and they'll work well) Poor: -25% (a ski that would have to be sold with a disclaimer, and is likely to be rejected in any case) This should be a big category, but the vast majority of skis will fit into the "good" and "fair" categories, so it doesn't end up doing much. Pair 1: "Good", no adjustment, still -10% Pair 2: "Fair", -5%, now -35% Adjustment 3: Base Perfect: No adjustment - Freshly ground, very little work necessary to rehabilitate the ski. Good: -5% - normal use, a few scratches but a grind will make them "perfect". Fair: -10% - heavy use, a lot of work involved to grind them, some scratches may not come out. Poor: -20% - trashed, definitely won't look pretty again, but can be made skiable and maybe race worthy. Pair 1: "Good", -5%, now -15% Pair 2: "Poor", -20%, now -55% Adjustment 4: Cosmetic How do they look? Did this person turtle-wax their skis, or leave them in the back of the pickup truck all winter? Perfect: +5% Good: no adjustment Fair: -5% Poor: - 20% Pair 1: "Perfect", +5%, now -10% Pair 2: "Fair", -5%, now -60% Adjustment 5: Flex/Size Evaluation aside, are these things pretty common or are they extremely soft/hard, or do they have a really strange combination of length and flex characteristics? In other words, will I ever find a buyer for these things? Common: no adjustment Odd: - 5% Ra - 10% Pair 1: Common, no adjustment, Still -10% resulting in a value of: $300.30 x 90%= $270.27 Pair 2: Common, no adjustment, Still -60% resulting in a value of: $265.30 x 40%= $106.12 Adjustment 6: Bindings Pilot in excellent condition: +$75 Pilot in fair condition: +$50 Other in excellent condition: +$50 Other in fair condition: +$30 Pair 1: Pilot in excellent condition brings the value to $270.27+$75 = $345 Pair 2: NNN in fair condition brings the value to $136 OK - so here's the test. Say you're the seller. After subtracting my margin I'm going to offer you $245 for the pretty new and well cared-for Fischers and $36 for the old and relatively beat-up Madshus. Is this fair? Probably not worth the shipping on the Madshus, but heck, if you're sending the Fischers anyway maybe they're easy to get rid of. Are we in the ball-park? Now, say you're shopping for some used skis. These things have been comprehensively evaluated - you know exactly what you're getting and what to expect from them, and they've been ground to your specifications. Is that pair of Fischers worth $345? New ones would run you about $530 by the time you've got bindings on them. How about the Madshus? Would you pay $136 for a five year-old pair of skis that have had some serious use, but have been lovingly restored to the best condition they'll ever see again? Please, let me know if you have any suggestions for adjustments to this system. I think the program could work well if it's set-up right. I think there will be a market for reconditioned used skis. But am I hoping to get too much out of this by making it (marginally) profitable? Thanks for your time. Zach http://www.engineeredtuning.net/ |
#4
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Used Ski Prices
"Zachary Caldwell" wrote in message ...
I've got a formula worked out and I'd really like to hear your thoughts about it. Zach, Man, it'll take an hour just to figure out a price. I'd say, figure out what you think you sell the skis for, and then subtract a 100 and make your offer. Explain that you'll be tuning the skis before you sell them (I assume), plus all the work you need to do to fit a used pair of skis to the new owner. Simple and up front. Jay Wenner |
#5
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Used Ski Prices
Wew. Really complicated. My general attitude is that I won't pay more
than 50% for any used ski. $75 for used Pilot bindings? One can get them new in Europe for $40. "Zachary Caldwell" wrote in message ... The people on this newsgroup have been very supportive of my ski tuning business venture and I appreciate the feedback I've received from this forum a great deal. So much, in fact, that I'm hoping you guys can help me on a fairly specific issue. I need a decent "formula" for assigning a value to used skis. Here's the background: Next season I'll have a limited (as in small) retail operation. It'll actually be a separate business from the grinding operation on paper. But I'll be working with Atomic, Fischer and Madshus selling hand-selected skis. As some of you may recall from earlier posts, I'd like to offer customers credit for their used and possibly mis-fit skis toward new well-fit skis. The trick is to figure out how much to offer. This is difficult because I'm not terribly familiar with the used-ski market. And I think I'll be adding significant value to the existing used ski market since everything will be flex tested and comprehensively refreshed on the grinder. I've got a formula worked out and I'd really like to hear your thoughts about it. I've got three main concerns. I want to be fair to the seller - ensure that they're getting good value for their used equipment. I want to be fair to the buyer - ensure that they get the right ski at significant savings over new-ski prices. And I want to be fair to myself - ensure that I'm appropriately compensated for my time evaluating, grinding, and flex-fitting the ski for the next customer. At this point I'm trying to build a $100 margin for myself into each pair of skis. This has to be upfront knowledge. I work hard for the money I make, and while this number may have to go down I can't afford to run the program too cheaply. The formula is in the form of a series of adjustments based on a careful inspection. I'll go through them in order. This may take just a little while. I'll use a couple of hypothetical pairs of skis for illustration. Note: It is assumed that all skis are top-model racing skis that meet a certain standard of quality. I don't like working with crap, and I'll turn stuff down if it's not worth the time. Hypothetical pair 1: '03 Fischer skatecut Hypothetical pair 2: '98 Madshus Classic Starting Value: Used ski devaluation - 30% As soon as you put binding holes in a ski I'm assuming that its value in the marketplace drops to 70% of its original retail value assuming it shows no signs of additional wear. I've arrived at this number by trying out a whole bunch of different approaches. This just ended up looking about right. But I'm open to suggestions. Pair 1 - $429 X 70% = $300.30 Pair 2 - $379 X 70% = $265.30 These numbers serve as "starting" values for any further adjustments. Some skis may have an alternative start value. For instance, the original Atomic Beta Race skate skis were an interesting experiment but they have been surpassed by so far that I would hesitate to asign a starting value of $265 to them. Maybe something closer to $200. Adjustment 1: Generation What generation (graphic/construction) is the ski? Current: No adjustment Last: -10% Previous: -20% "Old": -30% This adjustment is meant to take into consideration primarily the "model year" concerns of changing technology and (let's face it) graphics. Pair 1: Last generation, -10% Pair 2: "Old", -30% Adjustment 2: Evaluation This is where I flex test the ski and take a guess at its performance characteristics and desirability. Categories are - Perfect (a "special" ski): +10% (yup - value added) Good: No adjustment (well matched, up to expectation, but nothing remarkable) Fair: -5% (maybe they're not perfectly matched, or one wax pocket is a bit longer, but basically they're a pair and they'll work well) Poor: -25% (a ski that would have to be sold with a disclaimer, and is likely to be rejected in any case) This should be a big category, but the vast majority of skis will fit into the "good" and "fair" categories, so it doesn't end up doing much. Pair 1: "Good", no adjustment, still -10% Pair 2: "Fair", -5%, now -35% Adjustment 3: Base Perfect: No adjustment - Freshly ground, very little work necessary to rehabilitate the ski. Good: -5% - normal use, a few scratches but a grind will make them "perfect". Fair: -10% - heavy use, a lot of work involved to grind them, some scratches may not come out. Poor: -20% - trashed, definitely won't look pretty again, but can be made skiable and maybe race worthy. Pair 1: "Good", -5%, now -15% Pair 2: "Poor", -20%, now -55% Adjustment 4: Cosmetic How do they look? Did this person turtle-wax their skis, or leave them in the back of the pickup truck all winter? Perfect: +5% Good: no adjustment Fair: -5% Poor: - 20% Pair 1: "Perfect", +5%, now -10% Pair 2: "Fair", -5%, now -60% Adjustment 5: Flex/Size Evaluation aside, are these things pretty common or are they extremely soft/hard, or do they have a really strange combination of length and flex characteristics? In other words, will I ever find a buyer for these things? Common: no adjustment Odd: - 5% Ra - 10% Pair 1: Common, no adjustment, Still -10% resulting in a value of: $300.30 x 90%= $270.27 Pair 2: Common, no adjustment, Still -60% resulting in a value of: $265.30 x 40%= $106.12 Adjustment 6: Bindings Pilot in excellent condition: +$75 Pilot in fair condition: +$50 Other in excellent condition: +$50 Other in fair condition: +$30 Pair 1: Pilot in excellent condition brings the value to $270.27+$75 = $345 Pair 2: NNN in fair condition brings the value to $136 OK - so here's the test. Say you're the seller. After subtracting my margin I'm going to offer you $245 for the pretty new and well cared-for Fischers and $36 for the old and relatively beat-up Madshus. Is this fair? Probably not worth the shipping on the Madshus, but heck, if you're sending the Fischers anyway maybe they're easy to get rid of. Are we in the ball-park? Now, say you're shopping for some used skis. These things have been comprehensively evaluated - you know exactly what you're getting and what to expect from them, and they've been ground to your specifications. Is that pair of Fischers worth $345? New ones would run you about $530 by the time you've got bindings on them. How about the Madshus? Would you pay $136 for a five year-old pair of skis that have had some serious use, but have been lovingly restored to the best condition they'll ever see again? Please, let me know if you have any suggestions for adjustments to this system. I think the program could work well if it's set-up right. I think there will be a market for reconditioned used skis. But am I hoping to get too much out of this by making it (marginally) profitable? Thanks for your time. Zach http://www.engineeredtuning.net/ |
#6
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Used Ski Prices
"Zachary Caldwell" wrote in message ... Now, say you're shopping for some used skis. These things have been comprehensively evaluated - you know exactly what you're getting and what to expect from them, and they've been ground to your specifications. Is that pair of Fischers worth $345? Yes, from you. How about the Madshus? Would you pay $136 for a five year-old pair of skis that have had some serious use, but have been lovingly restored to the best condition they'll ever see again? Yes, from you. Trust and "relationship" is critical when choosing a vendor of skis. Zach- How long do modern skis "last". Do the structural aspects that make up flex characteristics and ski performance change through time if properly cared for? How is that $345 Fischer different than when new? Gary Jacobson Rosendale, NY AKA Gary The Snail |
#7
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Used Ski Prices
Hey Zach,
Whether you want to use your somewhat complicated (but completely reasonable) algorithm or just go by gut instinct, I think you are very much in the right ball-park. My feeling is that 1-2 year old top-line race skis are worth about $200, Pilot bindings $50 - $250. To have them hand-selected by you + a grind would certainly be worth the $100 mark up, i.e., to $350. In general, the uncertainty of flex/base condition is something that makes me leery of buying used skis. To have that uncertainty taken away by somebody who knows what the heck they're doing would be a significant plus. Brian In article , Zachary Caldwell wrote: The people on this newsgroup have been very supportive of my ski tuning business venture and I appreciate the feedback I've received from this forum a great deal. So much, in fact, that I'm hoping you guys can help me on a fairly specific issue. I need a decent "formula" for assigning a value to used skis. Here's the background: Next season I'll have a limited (as in small) retail operation. It'll actually be a separate business from the grinding operation on paper. But I'll be working with Atomic, Fischer and Madshus selling hand-selected skis. As some of you may recall from earlier posts, I'd like to offer customers credit for their used and possibly mis-fit skis toward new well-fit skis. The trick is to figure out how much to offer. This is difficult because I'm not terribly familiar with the used-ski market. And I think I'll be adding significant value to the existing used ski market since everything will be flex tested and comprehensively refreshed on the grinder. I've got a formula worked out and I'd really like to hear your thoughts about it. I've got three main concerns. I want to be fair to the seller - ensure that they're getting good value for their used equipment. I want to be fair to the buyer - ensure that they get the right ski at significant savings over new-ski prices. And I want to be fair to myself - ensure that I'm appropriately compensated for my time evaluating, grinding, and flex-fitting the ski for the next customer. At this point I'm trying to build a $100 margin for myself into each pair of skis. This has to be upfront knowledge. I work hard for the money I make, and while this number may have to go down I can't afford to run the program too cheaply. The formula is in the form of a series of adjustments based on a careful inspection. I'll go through them in order. This may take just a little while. I'll use a couple of hypothetical pairs of skis for illustration. Note: It is assumed that all skis are top-model racing skis that meet a certain standard of quality. I don't like working with crap, and I'll turn stuff down if it's not worth the time. Hypothetical pair 1: '03 Fischer skatecut Hypothetical pair 2: '98 Madshus Classic Starting Value: Used ski devaluation - 30% As soon as you put binding holes in a ski I'm assuming that its value in the marketplace drops to 70% of its original retail value assuming it shows no signs of additional wear. I've arrived at this number by trying out a whole bunch of different approaches. This just ended up looking about right. But I'm open to suggestions. Pair 1 - $429 X 70% = $300.30 Pair 2 - $379 X 70% = $265.30 These numbers serve as "starting" values for any further adjustments. Some skis may have an alternative start value. For instance, the original Atomic Beta Race skate skis were an interesting experiment but they have been surpassed by so far that I would hesitate to asign a starting value of $265 to them. Maybe something closer to $200. Adjustment 1: Generation What generation (graphic/construction) is the ski? Current: No adjustment Last: -10% Previous: -20% "Old": -30% This adjustment is meant to take into consideration primarily the "model year" concerns of changing technology and (let's face it) graphics. Pair 1: Last generation, -10% Pair 2: "Old", -30% Adjustment 2: Evaluation This is where I flex test the ski and take a guess at its performance characteristics and desirability. Categories are - Perfect (a "special" ski): +10% (yup - value added) Good: No adjustment (well matched, up to expectation, but nothing remarkable) Fair: -5% (maybe they're not perfectly matched, or one wax pocket is a bit longer, but basically they're a pair and they'll work well) Poor: -25% (a ski that would have to be sold with a disclaimer, and is likely to be rejected in any case) This should be a big category, but the vast majority of skis will fit into the "good" and "fair" categories, so it doesn't end up doing much. Pair 1: "Good", no adjustment, still -10% Pair 2: "Fair", -5%, now -35% Adjustment 3: Base Perfect: No adjustment - Freshly ground, very little work necessary to rehabilitate the ski. Good: -5% - normal use, a few scratches but a grind will make them "perfect". Fair: -10% - heavy use, a lot of work involved to grind them, some scratches may not come out. Poor: -20% - trashed, definitely won't look pretty again, but can be made skiable and maybe race worthy. Pair 1: "Good", -5%, now -15% Pair 2: "Poor", -20%, now -55% Adjustment 4: Cosmetic How do they look? Did this person turtle-wax their skis, or leave them in the back of the pickup truck all winter? Perfect: +5% Good: no adjustment Fair: -5% Poor: - 20% Pair 1: "Perfect", +5%, now -10% Pair 2: "Fair", -5%, now -60% Adjustment 5: Flex/Size Evaluation aside, are these things pretty common or are they extremely soft/hard, or do they have a really strange combination of length and flex characteristics? In other words, will I ever find a buyer for these things? Common: no adjustment Odd: - 5% Ra - 10% Pair 1: Common, no adjustment, Still -10% resulting in a value of: $300.30 x 90%= $270.27 Pair 2: Common, no adjustment, Still -60% resulting in a value of: $265.30 x 40%= $106.12 Adjustment 6: Bindings Pilot in excellent condition: +$75 Pilot in fair condition: +$50 Other in excellent condition: +$50 Other in fair condition: +$30 Pair 1: Pilot in excellent condition brings the value to $270.27+$75 = $345 Pair 2: NNN in fair condition brings the value to $136 OK - so here's the test. Say you're the seller. After subtracting my margin I'm going to offer you $245 for the pretty new and well cared-for Fischers and $36 for the old and relatively beat-up Madshus. Is this fair? Probably not worth the shipping on the Madshus, but heck, if you're sending the Fischers anyway maybe they're easy to get rid of. Are we in the ball-park? Now, say you're shopping for some used skis. These things have been comprehensively evaluated - you know exactly what you're getting and what to expect from them, and they've been ground to your specifications. Is that pair of Fischers worth $345? New ones would run you about $530 by the time you've got bindings on them. How about the Madshus? Would you pay $136 for a five year-old pair of skis that have had some serious use, but have been lovingly restored to the best condition they'll ever see again? Please, let me know if you have any suggestions for adjustments to this system. I think the program could work well if it's set-up right. I think there will be a market for reconditioned used skis. But am I hoping to get too much out of this by making it (marginally) profitable? Thanks for your time. Zach http://www.engineeredtuning.net/ |
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Used Ski Prices
For me, getting the stupid box out here in the boonies is half the
battle. If someone sent me a prepaid (by me) mailer box that I could shove all the skis into and ship off, then use as credit for buying new ones, I'd be stoked. The whole shipping and packing headache is what keeps the skis around in the first place, for me at least, which is also what keeps me from bothering to mail them for stone grinding.j |
#10
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Used Ski Prices
Honest feedback... I'll try not to tell you waht you want to hear but
what is realistic. I'd suggest you pay $125 to $150 for the skis or less and then sell them at $250. I don't think you're going to get a lot of bites at $300 or more. Yes. Plus to my mind one should not expect the price of bindings to increase the value of the ski a lot. Even though bindings cost a lot - e.g $80 for Pilots (twice as much as they pay overseas as I mentioned), bindings is like a free set of winter tires with a used car... people expect bindings to be on the ski. One does not sell skis with holes filled with epoxy - yuck. |
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