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#1
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So this guy walks into a ski newsgroup and he says...
"I bought these boots on Ebay..."
Anybody still with me? Ok, great. So I bought these boots on Ebay to replace a pair of lange X9's that I had received from my uncle about 6 years ago, after he had skiied them quite a few years himself. I had previously been skiing on lange XR7s, and loved the way the X9 felt; the thinner, tighter fit, the stiffer flex, that whole feeling. So I says to myself, why should I pay exorbitant retail prices, I know my foot size, I know lange boots fit my foot, and I know I like a stiff race boot, I can buy boots on ebay for the cheap! Sooooo I go on ebay, and I buy the stiffest lange boot I can find, which incidentally is the 130LF. I buy what I think is my size (9.5, 317mm), which turns out to be not exactly my size (the X9s were 323mm, oops) and the boot is horribly, horribly painful. But I says to myself, I says well I've been buckling those x9's up as tight as they can go these last few years, and I tend to wear boots into the ground, so maybe it was fate that I got the smaller size. Maybe I just need to see one of them bootfitters I'm always hearing about. So I head up to Paul Richelson's Feet First in plymouth, and paul takes a look at my feet, and my boots, and tells me that yes, the 130LF can be made to fit my foot but that I'm going to be in agony until some work is done. Seems that I have a narrow heel which is the reason I've always liked the langes, but the problem with the 317mm is that my big toe and the opposing arch tends to, ahh, rub against the shell a bit, and that's causing me no end to discomfort. It's jamming my toes into a little ball of pain. But my heel is happy, which is nice, there's just the tiny bit of lift on the X9s in 323mm. Geez I'm really writing a novel here, I know I had a point...oh oh, I remember now. Ok, so Paul says that the 9.5 is the right size in the 130lf for me, though he cautioned me that this is a race stiff boot with paper thin liners and was I a ski racer or something? No, no I am not. I ski hard and fast on the east coast ice rinks (currently sitting on a pair of atomic GS:11's which I enjoy very much) but I am definitely not a racer, just a recreational skiier. Ok, well so I like my boots stiff and with a thin liner to increase control, and I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of comfort for that. But my question to you all is, how much comfort are we talking here? I was under the impression that my old X9's were a race-class boot, but it seems that this 130LF is a REALLY race class boot, and perhaps I'm just a bit outclassed here? I have the option to either stick with the boot and let Paul go about grinding out the toe and arch (I tried skiing two runs in the boots as-is against his recommendation and I was in such agony I could literally not even turn my skis) or return the boots and try again. One other option is the person I got my boots from also has a lange L10 in a size 10 that he'd exchange my boots for, now I know that the 130lf is a newer, more expensive boot, but would I be better off ignoring the $$$ signs and going with that boot, would my non-racer ass be better off in the end? I'm 6'1, 175lbs or so if it matters, like I said I really *like* a stiff boot but when I was in Feet First I was sitting next to a kid about my height and weight who raced GS competitively, and he was wearing the 120LF...hmm, did I do wrong? Sorry for the lenghty rant, any advice is appreciated. - Darrell |
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#2
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honclfibr wrote:
"I bought these boots on Ebay..." Anybody still with me? Ok, great. So I bought these boots on Ebay to replace a pair of lange X9's that I had received from my uncle about 6 years ago, after he had skiied them quite a few years himself. I had previously been skiing on lange XR7s, and loved the way the X9 felt; the thinner, tighter fit, the stiffer flex, that whole feeling. So I says to myself, why should I pay exorbitant retail prices, I know my foot size, I know lange boots fit my foot, and I know I like a stiff race boot, I can buy boots on ebay for the cheap! Sooooo I go on ebay, and I buy the stiffest lange boot I can find, which incidentally is the 130LF. I buy what I think is my size (9.5, 317mm), which turns out to be not exactly my size (the X9s were 323mm, oops) and the boot is horribly, horribly painful. But I says to myself, I says well I've been buckling those x9's up as tight as they can go these last few years, and I tend to wear boots into the ground, so maybe it was fate that I got the smaller size. Maybe I just need to see one of them bootfitters I'm always hearing about. So I head up to Paul Richelson's Feet First in plymouth, and paul takes a look at my feet, and my boots, and tells me that yes, the 130LF can be made to fit my foot but that I'm going to be in agony until some work is done. Seems that I have a narrow heel which is the reason I've always liked the langes, but the problem with the 317mm is that my big toe and the opposing arch tends to, ahh, rub against the shell a bit, and that's causing me no end to discomfort. It's jamming my toes into a little ball of pain. But my heel is happy, which is nice, there's just the tiny bit of lift on the X9s in 323mm. Geez I'm really writing a novel here, I know I had a point...oh oh, I remember now. Ok, so Paul says that the 9.5 is the right size in the 130lf for me, though he cautioned me that this is a race stiff boot with paper thin liners and was I a ski racer or something? No, no I am not. I ski hard and fast on the east coast ice rinks (currently sitting on a pair of atomic GS:11's which I enjoy very much) but I am definitely not a racer, just a recreational skiier. Ok, well so I like my boots stiff and with a thin liner to increase control, and I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of comfort for that. But my question to you all is, how much comfort are we talking here? I was under the impression that my old X9's were a race-class boot, but it seems that this 130LF is a REALLY race class boot, and perhaps I'm just a bit outclassed here? I have the option to either stick with the boot and let Paul go about grinding out the toe and arch (I tried skiing two runs in the boots as-is against his recommendation and I was in such agony I could literally not even turn my skis) or return the boots and try again. One other option is the person I got my boots from also has a lange L10 in a size 10 that he'd exchange my boots for, now I know that the 130lf is a newer, more expensive boot, but would I be better off ignoring the $$$ signs and going with that boot, would my non-racer ass be better off in the end? I'm 6'1, 175lbs or so if it matters, like I said I really *like* a stiff boot but when I was in Feet First I was sitting next to a kid about my height and weight who raced GS competitively, and he was wearing the 120LF...hmm, did I do wrong? Sorry for the lenghty rant, any advice is appreciated. - Darrell OK, so I got a pair of boots off ebay too. No shame there. Just so's you know, both pair of boots that I'm talking about below came mail order. The Raichle's from ebay and the AT boots from Sierra Trading Post in Cheyenne, WY. I went into these purchases knowing that I'd need professional boot fitting services to make them work. SureFoot at Killington had a great reputation and I wasn't disappointed. The combination of great prices on the boots plus the addition of fitting services still resulted in a total that was half the price of new retail boots or maybe even better. It also appears that you did most (but not all) of your homework. Even here on the EasternIceRinks(tm) an all-out racing boot is not everybody's cup of tea. My current boots are a pair of Lowa Alpine Touring boots (very soft, comfy, and nice to walk in when required AND a pair of Raichle Racing Flexons. The Raichle's have a stiff (laterally) shell and force me into the skier's shuffle when walking but are not especially stiff fore to aft except for the limitation of forward lean. The AT boots are like sneakers. The Racing boots I had assumed would be for icy days, especially those when I'm not working and don't have to walk around much. I've found that even on days when EasternFirm(tm) prevails that the AT boots work quite well. I'm not pushing terribly high end skis with them, just nice Fischer mid-fats. In most cases I have all the control I need. I still feel the need for something a bit stiffer when I want ski a little harder than normal, when I'm not working and skiing with a rat pack, or skiing on my 6stars. The racing boots do it for me quite well except that there are a couple of areas where I seem to experience nerve damage if I ski in them all day. It takes a day or so to be able to put on ANY boot after that. My solution will be to replace the racing boots with the same brand of boot, but with a slightly larger shell and a liner with more padding. I'm getting these Raichle's at such a good price that I'm not out much money as they are not imported (or even made) any more, but they have known weaknesses like buckles falling off and the racing boots will give me a pair of parts boots. No question that Lange make great boots. My recommendation would be to go for the slightly softer shell with more padding. I think you will get all the support you need, especially on modern skis and be MUCH happier in the long run. VtSkier |
#3
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honclfibr wrote:
...hmm, did I do wrong? Sorry for the lenghty rant, any advice is appreciated. A dumb question for you. Are these heat-moldable linings and did you reheat and shape them? I have the new Lange 120LF's and they are great. I usually wear a very thin liner and a normal pair of ski socks. I had them heat shaped without the sock liners which was a mistake. I thought they were so thin that it would not make a difference but it did. Also, the tongue on the new Langes seems to need proper placement or it can change the fit if it is out of place. Mike... -- See my ski photography and Breckenridge photoblog at: http://PowderDay.us Carpe powder-diem |
#4
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"honclfibr" wrote in message I have the option to either stick with the boot and let Paul go about grinding out the toe and arch If grinding is going to do it, I'd be surprised. I usually need various bits of my boots stretched out, and they do it with heat and wooden things shaped to push out the boot, and when they've done as much of that as the plastic will take, THEN they grind, but you don't lose much space with grinding. If you can't ski in them, they are useless. Get rid of them and try again. ant |
#5
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ant wrote: "honclfibr" wrote in message I have the option to either stick with the boot and let Paul go about grinding out the toe and arch If grinding is going to do it, I'd be surprised. I usually need various bits of my boots stretched out, and they do it with heat and wooden things shaped to push out the boot, and when they've done as much of that as the plastic will take, THEN they grind, but you don't lose much space with grinding. If you can't ski in them, they are useless. Get rid of them and try again. ant This is definitely my biggest fear, when I took them to the bootfitter he said that he could grind/stretch the parts that were problematic, but he also said that I might need custom insoles. The thing is, as soon as he starts grinding and stretching them, I can't get rid of the boots, they've been hacked, they're mine. I don't want this to turn into a $180 ebay boot with $1500 in modifications, that would kind of defeat the purpose. The other thing is, I called tuesday to make an appointment, having just been in on saturday to have the boots looked at. I spoke to paul on the phone, who is the same person that fitted me on saturday, but he didn't remember who I was. This makes me a bit nervous, since it implies to me that he didn't really take a good look at my boot before telling me that it was the right size for me. OTOH Feet First comes highly recommended to me as one of the best bootfitters in the country, so if Paul tells me that these are the right size boot for me, who am I to argue? I'm really on the fence about it, still looking at those L10s. The other thing is, the L10s *look* like my X9s, these 130lfs are a tiny little boot with a low rise, seem like an entirely different boot to me. |
#6
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lal_truckee wrote:
honclfibr wrote: I don't want this to turn into a $180 ebay boot with $1500 in modifications That should have been your first consideration, long before considering ebay. And it doesn't need to be a consideration at all. A place like surefoot charges x-dollars for their main product and fitting. They also guarantee their fitting as long as they agree that you have the correct shell size. That last may be the sticker. If, as you say, your toes ball up into a painful knot, you may not have the correct shell size. As others also pointed out, there is a limit to how much a boot can be stretched, though I've seen a toe blown out so much that Salomon driver bindings wouldn't fit correctly and the owner had to buy Markers which don't ride up on the boot toe so much, in order to get consistent release function. Personally I think you have bought an all-out racing boot and that you are bound for pain as long as you have it. I'd go for a boot which may well be as stiff, if that's what you want, but has a cushier liner. VtSkier |
#7
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honclfibr wrote:
I don't want this to turn into a $180 ebay boot with $1500 in modifications That should have been your first consideration, long before considering ebay. |
#8
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"honclfibr" wrote in message
so if Paul tells me that these are the right size boot for me, who am I to argue? size is one thing, fit to your foot and ankle are another. If the boots are totally the wrong shape, then all that work will cost a lot and leave you with frustrating boots that never fit right. I had the same thing with my old salomons. You have to start with a boot that fits, or almost fits, and the mods are just fine tuning, not major surgery. ant |
#9
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"VtSkier" wrote in message
... As others also pointed out, there is a limit to how much a boot can be stretched, though I've seen a toe blown out so much that Salomon driver bindings wouldn't fit correctly and the owner had to buy Markers which don't ride up on the boot toe so much, in order to get consistent release function. My atomics are almost at that point! They are the widebodies, and came with a very square, aggressive toe. I had the right one pushed out a bit more, as my toenail went black, and the bulge just clears the toepiece of the ski binding, it actually goes over it. ant |
#10
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ant wrote:
"VtSkier" wrote in message ... As others also pointed out, there is a limit to how much a boot can be stretched, though I've seen a toe blown out so much that Salomon driver bindings wouldn't fit correctly and the owner had to buy Markers which don't ride up on the boot toe so much, in order to get consistent release function. My atomics are almost at that point! They are the widebodies, and came with a very square, aggressive toe. I had the right one pushed out a bit more, as my toenail went black, and the bulge just clears the toepiece of the ski binding, it actually goes over it. ant Ant, Repeat after me: "Before skiing in the autumn and every week thereafter, I will cut my toenails as short as I can get them. Preferably to a point where the front of my toe is well beyond the front edge of the nail." VtSkier |
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