What happened (long)

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 13:48:12 +0100, "Buzby" wrote:


You're scenario is probably a case for using counter steering. I've over
cooked it a couple of times and got away with it by counter steering - with
a judicious shove of the bars it's amazing just how far the bike will go
over before the tyres let go. [1].

However, I fully expect the racing types will be along in a minute to tell
me I'm talking ********.

A racing type responds...

You're talking ********. Ace has put the points well enough, but to
re-iterate:
1. We all countersteer, all the time. It's the only way to make a
motorcycle turn one over 15~20mph
2. No amount of countersteering will compensate for arriving at a
corner too fast.

Ace had two choices - stand the bike up and brake as hard as possible
in a straightline, or throw the bike in. If he'd taken the latter
approach, he'd probably have had a different sort of accident, and
only luck would have determined if the outcome would have been better
or worse. There is perhaps a tiny chance that he would have got ronud
the corner.

Having said, that I think 99% of people will, 99% of the time, stay on
the brakes - the mental control and detachment required to realise
what is happening, release the brakes and turn into the corner would
be exceptional, imo.
--
Champ

ZX10R
GPz750turbo
My advice as your attorney is to buy a motorcycle

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 15:02:54 +0100, "Hog"
wrote:

Benny wrote:

My brother whilst losing the tail rotor on the jet ranger he was
flying decided to spiral 300 feet to the ground and suffered the same
sort of-ish damage [1]. He was out of work for 6 months, got better
and went back flying without regrets.

Pretty amazing to survive an accident like that. Choppers do not appear
to have safety cells and most impacts are fatal.

They can do a sort of controlled-crash thing if they lose power -
setting the main rotor to slow the rate of descent. I've met people
who have survived such accidents.

Losing the tail rotor is meant to be one of the worse things that can
happen, tho.
--
Champ

ZX10R
GPz750turbo
My advice as your attorney is to buy a motorcycle

Champ wrote:

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 13:20:03 +0100, darsy wrote:

"Le Dieu" wrote:

Has Ace mentioned whether or not he'll ride again?

I'd be amazingly surprised if Ace didn't ride again.

I wouldn't.

really? Well, I suppose it was just a hobby for him, so a nasty shock
like this might see him pick a different one, despite his obvious
enjoyment of biking.

--
d.

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 12:47:26 +0100, Ian White
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 11:52:19 +0200, Ace wrote:

So, I'm barrelling along a lovely country road on my way to work -
snip

My cousin is 12 months on from a car smash that left her with a
similarly long list of damage. It's a *long* way back from something
like that

I don't think such generalisations are very useful. Superficially
similar injuries always differ extensively in the detail, and each
individual's response to the injury has a significant effect on
recovery.

For evidence of this, look at Barry Sheene, who was back racing within
weeks of his enormous Daytona crash.

I'm not suggesting that some people are 'stronger' or 'better' than
others - just that comparisons can rarely be made on recovery time.
--
Champ

ZX10R
GPz750turbo
My advice as your attorney is to buy a motorcycle

However, I fully expect the racing types will be along in a minute to tell
me I'm talking ********.

A racing type responds...

You're talking ********. Ace has put the points well enough, but to
re-iterate:
1. We all countersteer, all the time. It's the only way to make a
motorcycle turn one over 15~20mph
2. No amount of countersteering will compensate for arriving at a
corner too fast.

Ace had two choices - stand the bike up and brake as hard as possible
in a straightline, or throw the bike in. If he'd taken the latter
approach, he'd probably have had a different sort of accident, and
only luck would have determined if the outcome would have been better
or worse. There is perhaps a tiny chance that he would have got ronud
the corner.

Having said, that I think 99% of people will, 99% of the time, stay on
the brakes - the mental control and detachment required to realise
what is happening, release the brakes and turn into the corner would
be exceptional, imo.

Nice.Thanks.

Champ wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 15:02:54 +0100, "Hog"
wrote:

Benny wrote:

My brother whilst losing the tail rotor on the jet ranger he was
flying decided to spiral 300 feet to the ground and suffered the
same sort of-ish damage [1]. He was out of work for 6 months, got
better and went back flying without regrets.

Pretty amazing to survive an accident like that. Choppers do not
appear to have safety cells and most impacts are fatal.

They can do a sort of controlled-crash thing if they lose power -
setting the main rotor to slow the rate of descent. I've met people
who have survived such accidents.

Losing the tail rotor is meant to be one of the worse things that can
happen, tho.

I've just been googling around rotary wing accidents. I see some newer
machines which use the turbine exhaust rather than a tail rotor, which
seems sensible. I know about the autogyro landing, having tried some
rotary flying lessons, but that was related to main power failure.

I think it was WUN who was recounting recently that some small planes
have adapted parachute arrester systems. I've wondered about that
possibility for years and..... well I never!
http://www.brsparachutes.com/default.aspx

I'd like something on commercial airliners too please.

--
Hog
'96 *******12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400

"Champ" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 15:02:54 +0100, "Hog"
wrote:

Benny wrote:

My brother whilst losing the tail rotor on the jet ranger he was
flying decided to spiral 300 feet to the ground and suffered the same
sort of-ish damage [1]. He was out of work for 6 months, got better
and went back flying without regrets.

Pretty amazing to survive an accident like that. Choppers do not appear
to have safety cells and most impacts are fatal.

They can do a sort of controlled-crash thing if they lose power -
setting the main rotor to slow the rate of descent. I've met people
who have survived such accidents.

Losing the tail rotor is meant to be one of the worse things that can
happen, tho.

He doesn't remember but he shut the power off so fast and hard that he
snapped the button that shuts the fuel off on the collective. This stops the
engine turning the rotor and the forces of rotation, the chopper will level,
but you still need quiet a bit of air speed to get lift to the blades to do
an autorotation. He must have got that bit right.

--
Benny

Champ wrote:
Ace had two choices - stand the bike up and brake as hard as possible
in a straightline, or throw the bike in. If he'd taken the latter
approach, he'd probably have had a different sort of accident, and
only luck would have determined if the outcome would have been better
or worse. There is perhaps a tiny chance that he would have got ronud
the corner.

Could you keep the pure motorcycle talk to ukrm please? This is getting
decidedly off-topic for us skiers.

[Not that it really matters much given the low traffic on rsre during
the summer, but as a matter of principle...]

PS - Ace, hope your recovery goes as expected and you can indeed get
back on the slopes before the end of next season.

John.

--
-- Over 3000 webcams from ski resorts around the world - www.snoweye.com
-- Translate your technical documents and web pages - www.tradoc.fr

Benny wrote:

He doesn't remember but he shut the power off so fast and hard that he
snapped the button that shuts the fuel off on the collective. This
stops the engine turning the rotor and the forces of rotation, the
chopper will level, but you still need quiet a bit of air speed to
get lift to the blades to do an autorotation. He must have got that
bit right.

I don't like helicopters, period.

--
Hog
'96 *******12 '89 R100RS '81 XS650 '78 RD400

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 15:55:51 +0100, darsy wrote:

Has Ace mentioned whether or not he'll ride again?

I'd be amazingly surprised if Ace didn't ride again.

I wouldn't.

really? Well, I suppose it was just a hobby for him, so a nasty shock
like this might see him pick a different one, despite his obvious
enjoyment of biking.

It's just a hobby for almost all of us.

I just don't think you can really guess what anyone's reaction will be
to such trauma. I can't imagine giving up riding myself, but I won't
pretend that there's no event that would make me consider it.

And, of course, I've spoken to Bruce recently :-)

Mind you, lots of people say "That's if for me, I'm packing it in", in
the immediate aftermath, and then slowly (or not so slowly) change
their mind. At the TT this year, multiple sidecar winner Dave
Molyneux had a huge accident, and was quoted from his hospital bed
saying he was packing in racing. Two days later he said "I thinking
about it...".
--
Champ

ZX10R
GPz750turbo
My advice as your attorney is to buy a motorcycle