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Our snowboarding misadventure at Seven Springs



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 19th 04, 01:01 AM
Joe Ramirez
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Default Our snowboarding misadventure at Seven Springs

A couple of weeks ago, I started a thread here, "Snowboarding or skiing?",
that generated much discussion and many helpful contributions from group
members. To recap, I'm 42, my son is 14, and neither of us had ever
snowboarded before. We decided to give the sport a shot at the Seven Springs
resort near us in Pennsylvania. I thought the group might be interested in
learning how our first day went. Those with a low tolerance for tedium may
wish to stop reading now.

What went right:
*After reading about how to dress for the slopes, we bought long underwear,
fleece, goggles, snowboarding gloves, etc. We were quite warm today.
*Our rental boots & boards used step-in bindings, which turned out to be
invaluable -- not just for getting into the bindings, but also for getting
out of them. I often found that the only way to get from one place to
another on the hill was to pick up the board and walk.
*The snow-covered trees in the mountains southeast of Pittsburgh were very
pretty.

What went wrong: Just about everything else.

Actually, our first day of snowboarding was supposed to have been last
Sunday, but my son got sick and we had to postpone the trip for a week. Too
bad, because last week was consistently cold, and I think the snow was in
better shape (though mostly machine-made). This week was very cold up until
yesterday, when the temperature suddenly rose, and it rained for a while.
Then it turned colder again. The result was a wetter, icier environment.

The day got off to a comic start this morning as I was viewing the Seven
Springs snow report on my notebook computer. I walked across the room to
show it to my wife, then returned to my seat, still staring at the screen.
Unfortunately, the screen was not transparent, so I did not see the footrest
sticking out from the couch, which I tripped over magnificently. I banged
and scraped my foot, shin and knee, though the computer happily survived.
This turned out to be my worst fall of the day, though I'm not sure I can
legitimately claim it as snowboard-related.

At the beginning of the drive to Seven Springs, we were descending a steep
hill in our area that turned out to be ice-covered and unsalted. The car
spun around several times before ending up in a grassy field on the side of
the road. Luckily, we didn't hit anything, so we were able to pull back onto
the road, gingerly crawl down the rest of the hill, and resume the trip. But
the near-accident turned out to be a bad omen.

Seven Springs has a beginner package for $65 that includes boots and board
rental, a 90-minute group lesson, and a limited access lift ticket. (The
package is cheaper for skiers, because the ski rental costs less. Why is
that?) We purchased two of these packages for a total of $130. We never even
got near a lift today, so I guess we lost money on that part of the deal.

I had thought that equipment selection and use would be part of the lesson,
but it wasn't. A guy just handed us boots after learning our shoe sizes.
There was no effort to ensure a truly good fit, or to explain how all the
various fasteners worked. I had to keep going back to the rental desk to ask
questions. After we got one of my son's boots on and fastened, I noticed
that the other one was missing a strap, so we had to start again with a new
pair. My own boots were size 11. I suppose that they fit me adequately after
a lot of tugging on the laces, but I think that the model was probably too
wide to start with. My heels felt a bit loose, and there was a certain
Frankenstein's monster quality to my stomping.

After all the boots were tied, I happened to look down at my hand and notice
that the skin was shredded on two fingers from all the lace pulling. The
rental clerk responded vacantly when I asked where first aid was, so I just
wandered around until I thought of trying the childcare area. Sure enough,
the supervisor there had a whole box of first aid supplies, so I was able to
find a couple of bandages for my fingers.

My son and I were given the same model of snowboard (Rossignol), though his
was a little longer than mine. That struck me as odd, since we are within
..25" to .5" in height (he is tall for a 14-year-old -- about six feet), but
I outweigh him by 40-50 pounds. When we finally got out on the slope, I
discovered that the binding for my front (left) foot was almost
perpendicular to the major axis of the board, which turned out to be
inconvenient for me. There was so much angle to the foot placement that it
hurt to twist my left knee when I had to scoot with the left foot on the
board and the right foot pushing. Also, I keep my balance much better when I
can turn my left foot more toward to the direction in which I'm heading. It
felt awkward to have it pointing to the side. Our instructor said it was
possible to rotate the binding on the board, but I tried it on the hill and
it didn't budge.

The group lesson itself turned out to be of little use. There were about
five groups of eight for the 2:00 p.m. snowboarding beginners' lesson, and
probably as many for the skiing lesson, so if you pictured the slope as very
crowded, you'd be right. I was the only adult in our group of eight. The
instructor went through a series of lessons in a set order, and from my
perspective it didn't seem to make much difference whether the students
mastered a step or not before the next came along. Stand on the board | Push
the board | Slide with both feet on the board, but only one in the bindings
| Toeside turn | Heelside turn | Try both feet in the bindings | Now try
linking turns. I wasn't close to being able to turn effectively -- in fact,
I really couldn't get the board on edge at all -- when we were supposed to
try linking turns. I'd say that of the eight people in the group, perhaps
two (both little kids -- this seems to be a relatively bad sport for taller
folks to learn) could do a half-decent single turn. Everyone else would
slide down the hill a bit, make some kind of effort, perhaps turn a little,
then flop over in a heap. This was about one hour into the lesson. At this
point my son, who was very far from enjoying himself, and I just left.

An even bigger problem, from my perspective, was that the slope was so
crowded. Boarders and skiers were everywhere, moving in every direction, or
sometimes just sitting or lying on the snow. It's fine for a skilled
instructor to maneuver among the crowds, but I don't think it's right to ask
someone like me to learn in such conditions. Child beginners tend to be
heedless of where they'll end up when they start moving. However, as an
adult, I have the responsibility to think about where I'm heading. Also,
though I'm not a huge person, I'm an adult male and can do some damage to
anyone I collide with. I know that once my board starts moving, I can't stop
and I can't turn. When the slope is crawling with people, where am I
supposed to go? I can't just say, "Anyone in my path be damned!" As a
result, most of my trips were very short. Once I picked up a little speed, I
seemed to have no choice but to take a dive in order to stop before I became
a missile.

By the way, is it possible for a snowboard to be too fast, at least for a
beginner? A little more friction would have been welcome. I didn't like the
foot-on-a-banana-peel sensation of zipping away with no control. Since the
sport has no "crutch" -- the hand on the wall for the novice skater,
training wheels or a parent's grip for a new bicyclist, poles for the
beginning skier -- there doesn't seem to be a way to master the balancing
gradually.

On the whole, the experience was like learning to ride a bicycle by going
downhill with no brakes, and with dozens of pedestrians and other riders
crossing in front of you. When we were seated in the shuttle bus headed back
to the parking lot, my son remarked, "Well, that's one thing I never want to
do again. That was horrible."

Anyway, if we do this again -- and I'm not sure we will, given my son's
perspective and my disinclination to go alone -- we'll have to try private
lessons and figure out when there'll be some real open space available for
learning. I'm not sure what to do about equipment. Today's experience
confirms my general view that it's impossible to make progress in anything
with one-size-fits-all rental stuff (I didn't start improving as a skater
until I got my own, well-fitting skates), but it's very expensive and
probably imprudent to buy equipment we may seldom use. I already feel as
though today's $130 was flushed away with little to show for it.

Sorry for the extreme length of this report. If you're still awake, thanks
for reading.

Joe Ramirez







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  #2  
Old January 19th 04, 10:49 AM
Playdreamer
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Default Our snowboarding misadventure at Seven Springs

"Joe Ramirez" wrote in message
...

What went wrong: Just about everything else.


Joe, I am really sorry to hear that. I am sure many others on the group
have, like me, seen friends and family members with a similar experience on
their first day, or had a similar experience first hand. When I see this
happen I always think if only he/she would persevere a little bit longer
they would get it and I am sure others would echo that.

Learning to snowboard, for most people, does take a degree of commitment to
go through the hard knocks and steep learning curve. We have all been there
and can attest to the fact that despite that rather crestfallen feeling
after the first few hours that "I'll never be able to do this" you can!
Doubtless you saw others snowboarding and it seemed like an impossible leap
in ability to go from that beginner slope to cruising effortlessly down the
mountain. It is not! So have a rest, take a break and recover but please do
not give up.

It certainly does not help that things went badly with equipment,
instruction and crowds but it does not have to be that way.

Consider going to a smaller ski hill to learn where it will be less
crowded - you are not going to need extensive trails just yet. Try and rent
equipment the afternoon before you need it when everyone else is out on the
slope and the staff have time to advise you properly, try a specialist
snowboard shop for rentals rather than the general ski/snowboard rental desk
at the mountain lodge. Book a private lesson and invest in some protective
clothing: padded skating or hockey shorts (snowboard specific ones are very
expensive), skate wrist guards and knee pads. You may have to spend a little
bit more money but you will not regret it.

I suspect that if you really meant never to try snowboarding again you would
not have come back to tell us about your experience so take heart from the
encouragement you will undoubtedly get here and give it a fresh start.


Luke
-------------------------
http://www.snowgo.com


  #3  
Old January 19th 04, 11:02 AM
David Brown :o\)
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Default Our snowboarding misadventure at Seven Springs

Are there any dry slopes near you? They are much more difficult to board on
but a lot slower, and with decent lessons (which by the sounds of, you
definately didn't have) you'll pick it up in a safe controlled manner.
At your standard you should not be travelling forward at all IMHO, as you
noted you will soon become a fast moving uncontrolled projectile.
You say that you couldn't get an edge at all, but you should be on an edge
at all times, flat running at your level (and mine for that matter is
lethal).
Side slipe on both heal and toes edges untill you are in complete control of
speed and the board.
Then try falling leaf (side slip going side to side) on both heal and toe
edges. Then try the same but turning a little more into the fall line and
back to perpendicular to the slope again.
Gradually turn more into the slope as you get more confident but still keep
on either toe or heal edge, do not try and swap edges. Do this in both
directions on both toe and heal edges.
Do not progress unless you are in complete control.
Once you control the board safely from Heal edge to straight down fall line
and back to heal edge stop and the same for toe edge, then and only then try
swaping from heal edge start to straight line and toe edge stop. Doe this
heal-straight-toestop and toe-straight-healstop until you are completely
happy with it and your control, this is the hardest bit to conquer and can
take time, but just take things slowly.
When mastered, try not coming to a complete stop but carry on traversing
accross the slope and put in another turn in the opposite direction, and so
on down the slope.
Once you are at that stage you are well on the way to becoming a well 'ard
boarder dood ;o)

Hope that helps, but don't take any of that as gospel as I'm a learner
myself.

"David Brown )" wrote in message
He's gone for boarding (see later thread), but I reckon
he'll be skiing after the first week )


"Joe Ramirez" wrote in message
O ye of little faith! We shall see.

Joe Ramirez


Either that or go and get some skis )

--
David Brown )
http://kitemap.co.uk/stack


  #4  
Old January 19th 04, 11:48 AM
Edward Arata
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Default Our snowboarding misadventure at Seven Springs

Joe,

Sorry to hear your experience with learning to Snowboard, although not
uncommon. I rented twice and never bothered with lessons before I broke
down and paid 350$ for a board setup.

Your absolutely right about the "kids" running the rental place just handing
you the equipment and saying go for it. This is also true with lessons from
what I have heard. Other than what has been said before, like renting from
a small shop the day before, I would suggest taking a person that knows how
to board. Ask a friend (adult) or the kid next door to go with you for the
day. Hell! Save the money you would spend on lessons and buy a lift ticket
for helping you. They can walk you through the boot and board selection
much better than the people there will. Also they should bring along a
Philips screwdriver so you don't have issue with binding angles. (Note: an
ok place to start with bindings angles is about 20 in front and -6 in the
back, if you want to try duck stance [usually a good place to start])

It confuses me that you didn't get on a lift. Learning to snowboard is all
about having enough slope. If you stay on things which are too flat you
will not be able to carve. After boarding for two years it is still
difficult to board without speed. It is like a bike, the faster you go the
easier it is to balance or in this case turn, up to a point. Don't worry,
every boarder bails of the lift the first time, I did it and everyone I have
taught has done it.

I understand that you don't want to hit people as a human projectile. I
have this issue as well being 6'5" and 200 lbs. So less crowed day would
help, not to mention non-icy conditions. The snow conditions also have a
huge impact on learning. Don't learn on ice or deep powder, neither will be
much fun. The best I think to learn on is machine packed powder that fell
within the last 3 or 4 days, so its not too too hard.

Other than that there are only two keys to snowboarding. One: Weight on
your front foot. Two: bend your knees. (whenever I take a good spill, I am
usually getting lazy on one or both of these points.)

You will be surprised how fast the learning curve is for snowboarding. I
spent 2 days falling down and after that it just starts to click. You can
become a pretty good boarding in 2 or 3 seasons compared to skiing which I
have been told takes much longer.

Definitely try it again, and I suggest taking a boarder with you who will
stay the whole day with you and help you with equipment teach you how to
board. This was evident when I learned, it took 2 days since my friends
were there but not really helping, however late last season I tough someone
who had never been on a board to link turns in 5 hours, not well but well
enough to hit hard blue runs. That's just my opinion.

ED


  #5  
Old January 19th 04, 02:39 PM
Snowboardripper
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Default Our snowboarding misadventure at Seven Springs

The best thing to do is to take another lesson at a smaller friendly
hill. The big mountains are machines that have to serve thousands of
customers the cheapest way possible.
Take another lesson, but only with you and your son, when there are 4
people in the group it is hard to get the personal attention. This
costs more but if the other 2 people in the group do not pick up fast
you will be stuck learning at there level. Get the equipent in the
morning, practice getting your balance then try some side slipping,
heel then toe side. Now you are warmed up go to your lesson.
Some tips are to wear knee pads and elbow pads, helmet and bike shorts
with padding. When you catch an edge and land on the knee pads you
will be smiling.

Hope this helps. Some people can pick it up fast while other it takes
a little longer. Good luck and do not give up on the sport!
  #6  
Old January 19th 04, 03:15 PM
Dean
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Default Our snowboarding misadventure at Seven Springs

Joe Ramirez wrote:

To recap, I'm 42, my son is 14, and neither of us had ever snowboarded before.


My recap: I'm 48. I started boarding last winter, and got in one month of
boarding before the snow melted. I've been going out as often as possible this
winter and loving it.

You made a couple of mistakes.

1. Going on a weekend. I rarely go out on a weekend. The slopes are too crowded
with out-of-control kids on weekends. Fortunately my job allows me to take time
off in 1/2 days, and I've been going out afternoons. (One day last winter a kid,
about 10, would zoom straight down the hill and then fall at the bottom. After
watching him do that a few times I asked him why he fell at the bottom of the
hill. He said that was the only way he knew how to stop. After seeing two people
hauled away with concussions I bought a helmet.)

2. Going under poor snow conditions. Ice isn't easy for anyone.

I have no idea what the hills are like at the place you visited. They might be
too steep for a beginner.

Last winter I took lessons from a nearby resort. The "easy hill" was quite
steep. The snow was more ice than snow due to poor quality snow making. The
class really didn't help because the instructor, a 17 year old, wasn't very
good. He knew how to board, but not how to teach.

I bought a book. I do not recall the title or author. What I did was create a
"snowboard simulator" by placing my board on a carpeted floor and hanging onto
the back of the sofa. I followed the instructions in the book for turning and
linking turns and overnight I went from body slams to boarding. I also found a
gentler slope with good snow and a chair lift rather than rope tow, and avoided
weekends. My skills quickly progressed. I'm now enjoying intermediate to
difficult trails.

I think the sport needs a simulator to shorten the learning phase. Other sports
have them.

Dean

  #7  
Old January 19th 04, 03:16 PM
Han Solo (D)
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Default Our snowboarding misadventure at Seven Springs

"Edward Arata" wrote:

I would suggest
taking a person that knows how to board. Ask a friend (adult) or the
kid next door to go with you for the day. Hell! Save the money you
would spend on lessons and buy a lift ticket for helping you.


I would disagree on that.
I know a lot person who tried that, and it always ended in "ok, now you
turn" - "how?" - "well, I don't know how to explain, just try it. you
will know it soon"

It is a great difference between knowing snowboarding and knowing how to
TEACH snowboarding.


It confuses me that you didn't get on a lift. Learning to snowboard
is all about having enough slope. If you stay on things which are too
flat you will not be able to carve.


Lessons we give for beginners usually take 2 days, on the first day you
take the lift ONE time in the afternoon.
The rest of the day is basic training.

Hell, you can take the lift all the day if you want to, but without
basics you barely drive down but fall...

I understand that you don't want to hit people as a human projectile.
I have this issue as well being 6'5" and 200 lbs. So less crowed day
would help, not to mention non-icy conditions. The snow conditions
also have a huge impact on learning. Don't learn on ice or deep
powder, neither will be much fun. The best I think to learn on is
machine packed powder that fell within the last 3 or 4 days, so its
not too too hard.


Other than that there are only two keys to snowboarding. One: Weight
on your front foot. Two: bend your knees. (whenever I take a good
spill, I am usually getting lazy on one or both of these points.)


hmm, there's a lot more on snowboarding than that. rotation is the most
important for beginners, among the front foot, ok.
a normal turn is set together by a lot of small things, and if you learn
them step by step, it is really easy!


You will be surprised how fast the learning curve is for snowboarding.
I spent 2 days falling down and after that it just starts to click.
You can become a pretty good boarding in 2 or 3 seasons compared to
skiing which I have been told takes much longer.


Well, and I can promise you: if you take a lesson at a good snowboard
school, you'll learn it in 1 day!

We garuantee our beginners they can drive down a normal hill with
curves/turns in one day. We never had to take that promise back. I am
honest. We had beginners from 6 years to 60 years, they all made it.

Definitely try it again, and I suggest taking a boarder with you who
will stay the whole day with you and help you with equipment teach you
how to board.


Don't do it.
Take a lessons and depend on a maximum of 5 persons in your group. Or
take a private lesson.


Martin
  #8  
Old January 19th 04, 04:56 PM
ACey
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Default Our snowboarding misadventure at Seven Springs

"Joe Ramirez" wrote in
:

A couple of weeks ago, I started a thread here, "Snowboarding or
skiing?", that generated much discussion and many helpful
contributions from group members. To recap, I'm 42, my son is 14, and
neither of us had ever snowboarded before. We decided to give the
sport a shot at the Seven Springs resort near us in Pennsylvania. I
thought the group might be interested in learning how our first day
went. Those with a low tolerance for tedium may wish to stop reading
now.


Uh oh, don't like the sound of this!


What went right:
*After reading about how to dress for the slopes, we bought long
underwear, fleece, goggles, snowboarding gloves, etc. We were quite
warm today. *Our rental boots & boards used step-in bindings, which
turned out to be invaluable -- not just for getting into the bindings,
but also for getting out of them. I often found that the only way to
get from one place to another on the hill was to pick up the board and
walk.


This might have been a double-edged sword. Sure step-ins are convenient,
but they can also be a bit 'floppy' - I'm guessing that they are the
Rossi/Emory ones with a bar that sticks out either side of the boot?
These are very common on rental boards and really do suck, as they wear
very quickly and once worn are really imprecise.

*The snow-covered trees in the mountains southeast of Pittsburgh
were very pretty.

What went wrong: Just about everything else.

Actually, our first day of snowboarding was supposed to have been last
Sunday, but my son got sick and we had to postpone the trip for a
week. Too bad, because last week was consistently cold, and I think
the snow was in better shape (though mostly machine-made). This week
was very cold up until yesterday, when the temperature suddenly rose,
and it rained for a while. Then it turned colder again. The result was
a wetter, icier environment.


Not good - you will be falling a lot, and ice does hurt.


The day got off to a comic start this morning as I was viewing the
Seven Springs snow report on my notebook computer. I walked across the
room to show it to my wife, then returned to my seat, still staring at
the screen. Unfortunately, the screen was not transparent, so I did
not see the footrest sticking out from the couch, which I tripped over
magnificently. I banged and scraped my foot, shin and knee, though the
computer happily survived. This turned out to be my worst fall of the
day, though I'm not sure I can legitimately claim it as
snowboard-related.


Ouch. I did a similar thing on Christmas eve, except I didn't hurt
myself, but my powerbook is now in 2 bits (still works though!).


At the beginning of the drive to Seven Springs, we were descending a
steep hill in our area that turned out to be ice-covered and unsalted.
The car spun around several times before ending up in a grassy field
on the side of the road. Luckily, we didn't hit anything, so we were
able to pull back onto the road, gingerly crawl down the rest of the
hill, and resume the trip. But the near-accident turned out to be a
bad omen.

Seven Springs has a beginner package for $65 that includes boots and
board rental, a 90-minute group lesson, and a limited access lift
ticket. (The package is cheaper for skiers, because the ski rental
costs less. Why is that?) We purchased two of these packages for a
total of $130. We never even got near a lift today, so I guess we lost
money on that part of the deal.

I had thought that equipment selection and use would be part of the
lesson, but it wasn't. A guy just handed us boots after learning our
shoe sizes. There was no effort to ensure a truly good fit, or to
explain how all the various fasteners worked. I had to keep going back
to the rental desk to ask questions. After we got one of my son's
boots on and fastened, I noticed that the other one was missing a
strap, so we had to start again with a new pair. My own boots were
size 11. I suppose that they fit me adequately after a lot of tugging
on the laces, but I think that the model was probably too wide to
start with. My heels felt a bit loose, and there was a certain
Frankenstein's monster quality to my stomping.


From your experience's I guess you won't be too keen on spending more
money on the sport, but if you do decide to persevere (and you should -
it can only get better) really think about getting your own boots. They
needn't be expensive ones, just a pair of basic softboots.

This has 2 advantages:

- you get a pair of boots that fit you well. People have different shaped
feet and what works for one person won't work for another. If you go to
rent you're pretty much tied to the rental stock, if you buy you get to
try different makes and models, and you can go to more than one store to
find what fits. The single most important thing is heel-hold, you don't
want your heel slopping around in the boot; the 2nd most important thing
is comfort - no pinch points, you can wiggle your toes.

- when you rent a board you'll get one with soft bindings, rather than
step-ins. I really isn't a huge deal to strap and unstrap the board
(probably not much slower than trying to match the boot to the step-in)
and the increase in 'feel' from straps is worth it. You also will find
yourself moving around by scooting you board with your back leg - this
does actually help you get a feel for the board as well. (Rental boards
with soft bindings tend to be a little better too.)


After all the boots were tied, I happened to look down at my hand and
notice that the skin was shredded on two fingers from all the lace
pulling. The rental clerk responded vacantly when I asked where first
aid was, so I just wandered around until I thought of trying the
childcare area. Sure enough, the supervisor there had a whole box of
first aid supplies, so I was able to find a couple of bandages for my
fingers.


That sounds grim. You really shouldn't have to tie boots that tightly t
oget a good fit. The boots didn't fit.


My son and I were given the same model of snowboard (Rossignol),
though his was a little longer than mine. That struck me as odd, since
we are within .25" to .5" in height (he is tall for a 14-year-old --
about six feet), but I outweigh him by 40-50 pounds. When we finally
got out on the slope, I discovered that the binding for my front
(left) foot was almost perpendicular to the major axis of the board,
which turned out to be inconvenient for me. There was so much angle to
the foot placement that it hurt to twist my left knee when I had to
scoot with the left foot on the board and the right foot pushing.
Also, I keep my balance much better when I can turn my left foot more
toward to the direction in which I'm heading. It felt awkward to have
it pointing to the side. Our instructor said it was possible to rotate
the binding on the board, but I tried it on the hill and it didn't
budge.


It sounds like they gave you pretty much what came to hand first. The
main criteria for sizing a board is weight rather than height, and foot
size - big feet = wide board.


The group lesson itself turned out to be of little use. There were
about five groups of eight for the 2:00 p.m. snowboarding beginners'
lesson, and probably as many for the skiing lesson, so if you pictured
the slope as very crowded, you'd be right. I was the only adult in our
group of eight. The instructor went through a series of lessons in a
set order, and from my perspective it didn't seem to make much
difference whether the students mastered a step or not before the next
came along. Stand on the board | Push the board | Slide with both feet
on the board, but only one in the bindings
| Toeside turn | Heelside turn | Try both feet in the bindings | Now
| try
linking turns. I wasn't close to being able to turn effectively -- in
fact, I really couldn't get the board on edge at all -- when we were
supposed to try linking turns. I'd say that of the eight people in the
group, perhaps two (both little kids -- this seems to be a relatively
bad sport for taller folks to learn) could do a half-decent single
turn. Everyone else would slide down the hill a bit, make some kind of
effort, perhaps turn a little, then flop over in a heap. This was
about one hour into the lesson. At this point my son, who was very far
from enjoying himself, and I just left.


From what you're saying and from seeing people learning in some resorts
in the Alps, I am *so* glad I learnt at Whistler. (Did the 3 day 'Ride
Esprit' program in '99, with two really great instructors - Arnie and
Jay.)

Others have already covered this, but it sounds like your teaching
quality wasn't great. After skating the board, the whole learning process
is about side-slipping, first on your toe-edge, then the heel-edge, and
learninh how looking up and making the edge bite into the snow controls
your descent. Then you do the falling leaf - side slipping from side to
side, still using the edge to control speed. Once you've done enough
falling-leaf, you will naturally feel the desire to turn a turn -
probably only one one side. You should never find yourself not in control
or going anything above a quick walking pace.


An even bigger problem, from my perspective, was that the slope was so
crowded. Boarders and skiers were everywhere, moving in every
direction, or sometimes just sitting or lying on the snow. It's fine
for a skilled instructor to maneuver among the crowds, but I don't
think it's right to ask someone like me to learn in such conditions.
Child beginners tend to be heedless of where they'll end up when they
start moving. However, as an adult, I have the responsibility to think
about where I'm heading. Also, though I'm not a huge person, I'm an
adult male and can do some damage to anyone I collide with. I know
that once my board starts moving, I can't stop and I can't turn. When
the slope is crawling with people, where am I supposed to go? I can't
just say, "Anyone in my path be damned!" As a result, most of my trips
were very short. Once I picked up a little speed, I seemed to have no
choice but to take a dive in order to stop before I became a missile.


See above. Also, surely the resort should have a beginners area (bunny
slopes we used to call 'em) where anyone not in a lesson isn't allowed.
It makes it a whole load nicer to learn, if only becuase you don't feel
so self conscious!!


By the way, is it possible for a snowboard to be too fast, at least
for a beginner? A little more friction would have been welcome. I
didn't like the foot-on-a-banana-peel sensation of zipping away with
no control. Since the sport has no "crutch" -- the hand on the wall
for the novice skater, training wheels or a parent's grip for a new
bicyclist, poles for the beginning skier -- there doesn't seem to be a
way to master the balancing gradually.


Too fast - not really. So long as the board isn't something really
'special', which it won't be.

The whole balance learning is what you are doing when you side-slip and
do the falling leaf. You aren't actively learning to balance, you're just
getting used to being on a board in a controlled way, the balance just
comes over time.


On the whole, the experience was like learning to ride a bicycle by
going downhill with no brakes, and with dozens of pedestrians and
other riders crossing in front of you. When we were seated in the
shuttle bus headed back to the parking lot, my son remarked, "Well,
that's one thing I never want to do again. That was horrible."


Do try again - it can only get better


Anyway, if we do this again -- and I'm not sure we will, given my
son's perspective and my disinclination to go alone -- we'll have to
try private lessons and figure out when there'll be some real open
space available for learning. I'm not sure what to do about equipment.
Today's experience confirms my general view that it's impossible to
make progress in anything with one-size-fits-all rental stuff (I
didn't start improving as a skater until I got my own, well-fitting
skates), but it's very expensive and probably imprudent to buy
equipment we may seldom use. I already feel as though today's $130 was
flushed away with little to show for it.


Yup, you had a pretty unfortunate start to your boarding adventure, but
remember the words of Obi Wan "Everytime you strike me down Vader, I'll
come back stronger" (or something to that effect).


Sorry for the extreme length of this report. If you're still awake,
thanks for reading.

Joe Ramirez


Couple of other things:

Maybe try and go away for a long-weekend to learn. It will take more than
a day to start to really feel that you are making progress, and it's
worthwhile having a block of time to do that. Maybe a long weekend in
Whistler - use your US$ to get a good deal

Also, there's a book called "Snowboarding" by Rob Reichenfeld and Anne
Bruechert (ISBN 0873226771), Amazon have it. It's a good introduction and
light on the 'woah, dude' type stuff. I found it really useful to read
through what I'd learnt that day in the bath(!!) after the lesson. It
helps to see the theory behind what you've been trying to learn. It's
also got a good chapter on pre- and post- riding exercises, which do
help. (Also some stuff on equipment, but it's a little dated, although
the basics remain the same.)

Give it another go, and let us know how you got on!

AC.

  #9  
Old January 19th 04, 06:01 PM
Jason Watkins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Our snowboarding misadventure at Seven Springs

Nobody said the first days were easy :P.

My very first snowboard experience was a friend leading me to the top
of a blue run (at heavenly in tahoe) and saying "see you in a couple
hours". I think I managed to tumble down that run 3 times before I was
so tired I had no hope of balancing. Despite that, I had a lot of fun,
and actually managed a turn or 2 in there.

About 2 years later, my girlfriend and I decided to up to the local
mountain for christmas day. We did the same sort of package rental +
beginners lift ticket, and got fairly good service all around. A group
lesson totally is a compramise though... by the end of the lesson, we
were linking very shakey turns, but didn't have much feedback from the
instructor on how to keep progressing as he spent most of his time
helping the slowest learning in the class. We actually spent a solid
11 hours on the bunny hill that day.

After that, I did a whole lot of $10 night ski at a local resort here.
I'd guess it wasn't until my 8th trip out that things began to make
sense, and that I improved much beyond where I was on that first day.
If I'd had personal instruction, I probibly could have eliminated
those 8 nights of falling down, but I managed to learn pretty good on
my own anyhow. After that things progressed very quickly over the next
season.

It's definately not easy, and those first few times out, all I felt
walking up to that lift line for my first ride up was complete dread.
But, I stuck at it, and now I only get that sense of dread when I'm
looking down something I know is beyond my ability, but I'm gonna try
it anyhow. I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to keep facing that sense
of dread as long as I want to advance.

It's not cheap either. If it wasn't for the $10 night ski here I may
not have kept paying $40+ for each day of punishment. This is now my
2nd season of consistant riding, and if I added up all the tickets,
equipment, food, gas, advil, etc I'm sure I've spent a few $1000 on
snowboarding.

Snowboarding, and I assume skiing, are sports that definately require
you to invest in some discomfort to reap the rewards. It sounds like
you had an especially bad first time out, but I wouldn't be surprised
if most people had a fairly negative first day.

If it's not for you, that's fine, there's a million ways to have fun
that don't involve falling on your @$$ in the cold and wet ;P. If for
some reason you do decide to give it another shot, specific
suggestions would be:

Rent from a snowboard shop, not the resort. Resort's don't have much
competition pressuring them to carry good rental equipment. With a
shop, you can check out their offerings, and see how helpful the staff
are.

As for a lesson, it sounds like that resort has particularly poor
offerings. However, now that you've done the beginner one, you
probibly can come back and get a "next step" lesson that'll be a
smaller group with more focused attention. Or you can find a private
lesson. A friend who already knows how to snowboard or ski might not
be the best teacher, but they can be good encouragement.

Carry chains, the access roads for resorts are often icy here, so I
can only imagine how bad it would be on the east coast.

Try to go on a week day, or if it must be a weekend, not one that's
near a holiday. This should help cut down the crowds.

Boards are made to glide, and I'm not sure slowing one down would help
someone learn. The reason you wish it was slower is because your not
sure how to control this thing. Garlands are a great way to get some
confidence: Start out with the board pointed accross the slope. Shift
your weight toward one end of the board so that it starts to point
down the slope (just like falling leaf). Get it pointed as close to
straight down the slope as you dare, and then shift weight to bring it
back to being perpendicular accross the slope. Just keep doing that
both toeside and heelside and soon you'll get some confidence that
even if you get a little speed, you'll be able to bring that board
back around and skid to a stop.
  #10  
Old January 19th 04, 06:19 PM
Mike T
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Our snowboarding misadventure at Seven Springs

What went wrong: Just about everything else.

There were lots of good comments from the others -

Yes, the worst is over. It gets better from here, why else would we all
be so fanatical about it? FWIW, aside from the car and laptop
accidents, my first time went pretty much the same as yours. I slammed
down on the ice so many times I could barely move for three days. I
didn't try again till the next season, and it went much better.

Yes, rent from a shop, not the mountain - try on the boots at the shop,
get into the bindings, do whatever you can to make sure your stance is
comfy.

I recall you saying on your 1st thread, weekdays were not an option.
You could rent at a shop the night before, and then get to the mountain
bright and early, before the lifts open. You want to get into the
first lesson of the day, which usually starts just after the lifts open.
The slopes will be less crowded. Beginners don't get to the mountain
early. If you do, you might get the bunny slope to yourself! Also,
group lessons will probably be less crowded early in the AM. Not to
mention, chances are the trail will be freshly groomed.

It sound like your lesson just plain sucked. Call the 7 springs, ask
for the ski school manager, and tell them about it. Depending on what
kind of operation 7 Springs is, you might get some freebies out of it,
like a free lesson and ticket. If you decide to go for the private
lesson, make an appointment at this time, and make it *clear* that you
want the best beginner instructor they've got!

If you do a group lesson instead, like I said, show up for the first
lesson, who knows, you mind end up getting a private one anyway!





Mike T







 




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