Opinions about Start kick waxes (esp. MFW) +

Guess Swix+Toko+Rode hold 95% of USA kick wax market but hope anybody
also has experience with Start. Plz tell us!
mmm... not ski walking but RACING

-Especially about MFW
-also klisters & synthetic sticks

BM has good reputation but if U have something to tell - i'd like to
hear it for sure too

thnx

"alexmal" wrote in message
om...
Guess Swix+Toko+Rode hold 95% of USA kick wax market but hope anybody
also has experience with Start. Plz tell us!
mmm... not ski walking but RACING

-Especially about MFW
-also klisters & synthetic sticks

BM has good reputation but if U have something to tell - i'd like to
hear it for sure too

thnx

Start products (MFW - molubdenum, BM - bases, etc), with the exception of
the grip tape, are impossible to find around where I live or ski. However, I
did use Start Tar based kick waxes for a while. I found the tar kick very
effective in very moist and even wet snow conditions. The synthetic kick I
also have but must admit never really experimented with them. I would tend
to say they are very similar to Swix but please don't take my word for it!

I have since switched to the Rode line (multigrades, special, etc.) with
very good results. They really grip when you put weight on it and really
glide when you release. Maybe I should ebay some of my kick wax stock. All
in all, I must have over 4 dozens of Swix/Toko/Start tins... ; )

BarryT

"alexmal" wrote in message
om...
Guess Swix+Toko+Rode hold 95% of USA kick wax market but hope anybody
also has experience with Start. Plz tell us!
mmm... not ski walking but RACING

-Especially about MFW
-also klisters & synthetic sticks

BM has good reputation but if U have something to tell - i'd like to
hear it for sure too

thnx

I have just returned from a week in the Methow Valley (north / central
Washington), and used Start grip tape for 4 days - my first uses of it.
First day was flat terrain and dirty warm soft snow mixed with some ice or
icy snow in the woods or shade. These were historically uncharacteristic
conditions this time of year for this area, which is usually great hard wax
skiing. My kick was so much better than my friends (1 with universal
klister, 1 on waxless, and 1 on VR60/70) that we could scarcely believe it.
We skied 35-40K and my grip tape didn't show significant wear. Glide speed
was also quite good; I started the tape about an inch back from the front of
my hard wax kick zone. Skied the next day on it and got another 30 K in warm
soft conditions. Didn't get as dirty as the klister did - I didn't have
nearly the pickup of pine needles that the klister skis did.

The next use was a long icy almost constant uphill from the Cub Creek
trailhead up to Rendezvous Pass (1700 ft gain over 11K or so). This time I
started the tape right at the front of my hard wax zone, and while I had
great kick all the way up, glide on the very few flat sections wasn't as
good - the skis grabbed a bit a few times. The abrasive ice/snow really
chewed up the tape on one of the skis so that I had almost nothing left of
it by the time we got to Gardner Hut. The extent of the asymmetry in wear
suggested some sort of difference in how I applied the tape.

The last use was icier tracks in Mazama; moving the start of the tape back
from the start of the kick zone restored the speed, and kick was still
excellent but the abrasive tracks again chewed up the tape pretty good.

Overall it appears to be a great klister substitute in mostly warm soft
conditions.

"Chris Esposito" wrote in message ...
"alexmal" wrote in message
om...
Guess Swix+Toko+Rode hold 95% of USA kick wax market but hope anybody
also has experience with Start. Plz tell us!
mmm... not ski walking but RACING

-Especially about MFW
-also klisters & synthetic sticks

BM has good reputation but if U have something to tell - i'd like to
hear it for sure too

thnx

I have just returned from a week in the Methow Valley (north / central
Washington), and used Start grip tape for 4 days - my first uses of it.

Thanks for your report but the tape is not what i wanted to know
Actually I believe that "tape" is just a form how U put wax on. There
is nothing secret or exclussive in the wax itself. So U could prepare
the same (or better) waxed surface using usual sticks and klisters.
Guess Start_tape is for training / lazy / not experiented waxer... and
could be really seldom good as a race wax

I'm curious about what Rode waxes you've found to be worthwhile (sticks,
fluoros, klisters). I've been trying to figure out a good set to start
with. They have as many narrow zone choices as the original Swix.
Thanks,

Gene


BarryT wrote:

I have since switched to the Rode line (multigrades, special, etc.) with
very good results. They really grip when you put weight on it and really
glide when you release. Maybe I should ebay some of my kick wax stock. All
in all, I must have over 4 dozens of Swix/Toko/Start tins... ; )

BarryT

alexmal wrote:

Actually I believe that "tape" is just a form how U put wax on. There
is nothing secret or exclussive in the wax itself. So U could prepare
the same (or better) waxed surface using usual sticks and klisters.

The *tape* is just a method of application, but what makes you think or
believe that the *wax* itself isn=B4t "secret" or "exclusive" or, at the
very least, different and unique on
the market?

How would you propose to achieve a "Start Grip Tape-like" wax job with
even half the performance and range? (Not that you=B4d


Guess Start_tape is for training / lazy / not experiented waxer...
and
could be really seldom good as a race wax

You=B4ve nailed it on the head:-)


I haven=B4t really been within a whiff of a waxing shed in races since
about the times when Cera was the Great Big Secret, so I cannot tell
you anything you want to know:-(


Anders

Gene Goldenfeld wrote in message ...
I'm curious about what Rode waxes you've found to be worthwhile (sticks,
fluoros, klisters). I've been trying to figure out a good set to start
with. They have as many narrow zone choices as the original Swix.

do U mind my opinion?

Rode sticks set:
rossa 0+2C (actual use = +1-1C)
mg 0-2C (actual -1-3)
super -1-3C (-3-6)
mg -3-7C (-6-12C and colder)
not really needed but if want colder than -15C - so also -10-20

klisters:
rossa, violet, silver

"Gene Goldenfeld" wrote in message
...
I'm curious about what Rode waxes you've found to be worthwhile (sticks,
fluoros, klisters). I've been trying to figure out a good set to start
with. They have as many narrow zone choices as the original Swix.
Thanks,

Gene

I only have a few of the kick waxes; klisters and gliders are not available
from our local shops. You can see the complete line on the Canadian importer
site http://www.lazl.com/rodeSkiWax.html

What I like most about Rode kick waxes is ... the glide! The snow doesn't
stick to it so you can wax much warmer without being afraid of ending up
with what we call around here "high heels". This time of the year, with the
warmer sun, it is good to have kick wax that can go from shaded to sunny
tracks without losing grip or picking up snow. Kickwaxing much warmer for
the first coats and covering with a final coat a bit warmer than the actual
temperatures allows for these sudden changes in snow conditions.

These are the Rode grip waxes I presently use:
Red Extra 0C +2C
Blue Multigrade 0C -2C
Super -1C -3C
Green Multigrade -3C -7C

I also have the Special Green -10C -30C, but I've never used it.

Last Saturday: 35cm of newsnow in the last 48 hours, freshly packed and
groomed. Rather soft tracks - need more packing. Covered sky, some snow
flurries. Air temp was -6 C with medium humidity (could form a snow ball
but it wasn't firm). 2 thin coats of Red Extra (Violet Extra would also have
done the job) covered with one coat of Super. Good grip, good glide. Some
icing after 20km, but not as bad as everybody else that day who used the
other brands!

Last Sunday: a few more cm of snow during the night. Sunny, perfect day.
With a temp of -14C are more packing during the night, the trails are firm,
the humidity is low. Went again with 2 coats of warm kick, Blue Multigrade
(could have used Violet if I had any), covered with one coat of Green
Multigrade. I had a great day going up AND down all those trails! : )

Go ski. The season is too short!


BarryT

Thanks to both of you. Are you using a binder?

Gene


BarryT wrote:

"Gene Goldenfeld" wrote in message
...
I'm curious about what Rode waxes you've found to be worthwhile (sticks,
fluoros, klisters). I've been trying to figure out a good set to start
with. They have as many narrow zone choices as the original Swix.
Thanks,

Gene

I only have a few of the kick waxes; klisters and gliders are not available
from our local shops. You can see the complete line on the Canadian importer
site http://www.lazl.com/rodeSkiWax.html

What I like most about Rode kick waxes is ... the glide! The snow doesn't
stick to it so you can wax much warmer without being afraid of ending up
with what we call around here "high heels". This time of the year, with the
warmer sun, it is good to have kick wax that can go from shaded to sunny
tracks without losing grip or picking up snow. Kickwaxing much warmer for
the first coats and covering with a final coat a bit warmer than the actual
temperatures allows for these sudden changes in snow conditions.

These are the Rode grip waxes I presently use:
Red Extra 0C +2C
Blue Multigrade 0C -2C
Super -1C -3C
Green Multigrade -3C -7C

I also have the Special Green -10C -30C, but I've never used it.

Last Saturday: 35cm of newsnow in the last 48 hours, freshly packed and
groomed. Rather soft tracks - need more packing. Covered sky, some snow
flurries. Air temp was -6 C with medium humidity (could form a snow ball
but it wasn't firm). 2 thin coats of Red Extra (Violet Extra would also have
done the job) covered with one coat of Super. Good grip, good glide. Some
icing after 20km, but not as bad as everybody else that day who used the
other brands!

Last Sunday: a few more cm of snow during the night. Sunny, perfect day.
With a temp of -14C are more packing during the night, the trails are firm,
the humidity is low. Went again with 2 coats of warm kick, Blue Multigrade
(could have used Violet if I had any), covered with one coat of Green
Multigrade. I had a great day going up AND down all those trails! : )

Go ski. The season is too short!

BarryT

"Anders" wrote in message oups.com...
alexmal wrote:

Actually I believe that "tape" is just a form how U put wax on. There
is nothing secret or exclussive in the wax itself. So U could prepare
the same (or better) waxed surface using usual sticks and klisters.

The *tape* is just a method of application, but what makes you think or
believe that the *wax* itself isn=B4t "secret" or "exclusive"

IMHO if they have new wax they would sell it in can too

about range and usage
1. usually it takes about 5 minutes to wax my skis for training

2. the range of the tape is not really 20C... maybe about 7C and not
for all snow types. I'd look at you with the tape and -10-15C fresh
snow...
I do not need 10C range - i'd spend another 5min and have 2..7C range
with sticks (U know it depends)

well i see that there are many SGT users
use it and good luck - i'd go another way (my opinion & my choice)