Skiing with Ichin Shen

In article . com,
"taichiskiing" wrote:

Bob Lee wrote:
taichiskiing wrote:

lal_truckee wrote:
taichiskiing wrote:

Since the slowness does depend on, thus "relative," to the skier's
skill, speed cannot be used to judge the safety of the operation of
skiing. My feeling is that the mountain safety personnel also need to
be trained to distinguish the good/fast skiing from the
reckless/out-of-control skiing. After all, the main goal/spirit of
skiing remains sport oriented.

I repeat myself ad nauseum:

The deal with skiing in a "slow skiing" zone is that it's not only a
safety issue, it's also the perceived safety issue.

Methinks that makes an issue of the "beginning" of an issue. It's all
depends on how you look at it.

I look at it this way - I just don't see any challenge in skiing fast on
a beginners' slope. Why don't you go ski fast in some more difficult
terrain that isn't full of beginners and where there is a challenge to
it? It takes very little skill to ski fast on easy slopes.

Ski fast in difficult terrain - can you do it, or are you just a gaper
(gapper?) that can only ski fast in easy areas?

Jealous? It shows.

I was wondering where have you been, and was hoping you were not buried
somewhere in the recent NM's record snow storms; glad to see that
you're still alive and kicking.

Or the grumpy old fart just acting up?


IS


Bob

We're all still waiting for you skiing on something tougher than a
groomed blue run...

--
'It is Mac OS X, not BSD.' -- 'From Mac OS to BSD Unix.'
"It's BSD Unix with Apple's APIs and GUI on top of it' -- 'nothing but BSD Unix'
(Edwin on Mac OS X)
'[The IBM PC] could boot multiple OS, such as DOS, C/PM, GEM, etc.' --
'I claimed nothing about GEM other than it was available software for the
IBM PC. (Edwin on GEM)
'Solaris is just a marketing rename of Sun OS.' -- 'Sun OS is not included
on the timeline of Solaris because it's a different OS.' (Edwin on Sun)

"taichiskiing" wrote in message
ups.com...
Bob Lee wrote:
taichiskiing wrote:

lal_truckee wrote:
taichiskiing wrote:

Since the slowness does depend on, thus "relative," to the skier's
skill, speed cannot be used to judge the safety of the operation of
skiing. My feeling is that the mountain safety personnel also need
to
be trained to distinguish the good/fast skiing from the
reckless/out-of-control skiing. After all, the main goal/spirit of
skiing remains sport oriented.

I repeat myself ad nauseum:

The deal with skiing in a "slow skiing" zone is that it's not only a
safety issue, it's also the perceived safety issue.

Methinks that makes an issue of the "beginning" of an issue. It's all
depends on how you look at it.

I look at it this way - I just don't see any challenge in skiing fast on
a beginners' slope. Why don't you go ski fast in some more difficult
terrain that isn't full of beginners and where there is a challenge to
it? It takes very little skill to ski fast on easy slopes.

Ski fast in difficult terrain - can you do it, or are you just a gaper
(gapper?) that can only ski fast in easy areas?

Jealous? It shows.


No it doesn't. Whats showing is your failure to grow up. I thought most
martial arts teach respect for others, is Tai Chi an exception?
A serious skier will show courtesy and respect for people sharing the
mountain with him. He knows how serious even a slight collision can be. He
knows that no matter how good he is he can't predict what the guy in fron of
him is going to do. He knows he has nothing to prove by skiing fast in
beginner areas. He knows there are plenty of places where he can open it up
without endangering or frightening the snowplow crowd, who do in fact
subsidise the rest of us. There is no way the resort could operate just on
pass sales from high end skiers. There aren't onough of them and they don't
spend enough money. It wouldn't be hard to come up with example after
example of Joe Tourist who drops as much or more EACH day he stays in the
resort as you or I pay for our season pass. Those are the guys who cover the
cost of $5M high speed quads. They typically ski on green and blue runs at
the mid and bottom of the mountain, they top out at 3 or 4 runs a day and
they wouldn't even think about competing with me for first tracks when it
snows.
We need those people as much as the resort does. They pay our bills. Ski
fast when & where its appropriate and take it easy where you have to pass
through the beginner area.






I was wondering where have you been, and was hoping you were not buried
somewhere in the recent NM's record snow storms; glad to see that
you're still alive and kicking.

Or the grumpy old fart just acting up?


IS


Bob

Bob Lee wrote:
taichiskiing wrote:

Bob Lee wrote:
taichiskiing wrote:

lal_truckee wrote:
taichiskiing wrote:
Since the slowness does depend on, thus "relative," to the skier's
skill, speed cannot be used to judge the safety of the operation of
skiing. My feeling is that the mountain safety personnel also need to
be trained to distinguish the good/fast skiing from the
reckless/out-of-control skiing. After all, the main goal/spirit of
skiing remains sport oriented.
I repeat myself ad nauseum:

The deal with skiing in a "slow skiing" zone is that it's not only a
safety issue, it's also the perceived safety issue.
Methinks that makes an issue of the "beginning" of an issue. It's all
depends on how you look at it.
I look at it this way - I just don't see any challenge in skiing fast on
a beginners' slope. Why don't you go ski fast in some more difficult
terrain that isn't full of beginners and where there is a challenge to
it? It takes very little skill to ski fast on easy slopes.

Ski fast in difficult terrain - can you do it, or are you just a gaper
(gapper?) that can only ski fast in easy areas?
Jealous? It shows.

Jealous of what? I've got in 20 days of skiing so far.

I was wondering where have you been, and was hoping you were not buried
somewhere in the recent NM's record snow storms; glad to see that
you're still alive and kicking.

Or the grumpy old fart just acting up?

Seriously, answer the question - why don't you go ski fast in an area
where it's a challenge instead of bombing down beginner slopes where
people are learning? Aren't you good enough to ski fast in difficult
areas or can you only do it in beginner areas?

Bob

Uh, Bob,
There may have been a mis-interpretation of what I wrote here.

I noted that IS zipped through a marked "SLOW" area. The reason
for us being there was in the first case, the "SLOW" area was
an intersection of several trails coming togther, then diverging
again. There was no avoiding this and going elsewhere. In the
second case, it was near the bottom where ALL the trails dumped
out when approaching the lift. Crowded and all kinds of skiers
together. Again, no avoiding, so the "go elsewhere and ski fast"
cannot apply.

Which was why I was picking on IS a little to maybe get him to
actually slow down a little in these areas.

Alan Baker wrote:
In article . com,
"taichiskiing" wrote:

Bob Lee wrote:
taichiskiing wrote:

lal_truckee wrote:
taichiskiing wrote:
Since the slowness does depend on, thus "relative," to the skier's
skill, speed cannot be used to judge the safety of the operation of
skiing. My feeling is that the mountain safety personnel also need to
be trained to distinguish the good/fast skiing from the
reckless/out-of-control skiing. After all, the main goal/spirit of
skiing remains sport oriented.
I repeat myself ad nauseum:

The deal with skiing in a "slow skiing" zone is that it's not only a
safety issue, it's also the perceived safety issue.
Methinks that makes an issue of the "beginning" of an issue. It's all
depends on how you look at it.
I look at it this way - I just don't see any challenge in skiing fast on
a beginners' slope. Why don't you go ski fast in some more difficult
terrain that isn't full of beginners and where there is a challenge to
it? It takes very little skill to ski fast on easy slopes.

Ski fast in difficult terrain - can you do it, or are you just a gaper
(gapper?) that can only ski fast in easy areas?
Jealous? It shows.

I was wondering where have you been, and was hoping you were not buried
somewhere in the recent NM's record snow storms; glad to see that
you're still alive and kicking.

Or the grumpy old fart just acting up?


IS

Bob

We're all still waiting for you skiing on something tougher than a
groomed blue run...

Uhm, well, we did ski the upper portion of Preachers Passion,
which is steep, bumpy, and the day we were there, icy. Yes,
there is icy (think EasternFirm(tm)) conditions possible in
the Sierras. I would rate this trail as a bit more difficult
than Outer Limits at Killington and close to being on a par
with Devils Fiddle also at Killington.

OL is touted at gnarliest bump run in the east. It is 3/4 of
a mile long with a pretty consistent slope of around 30-35° and
is allowed to bump up. Very often the bumps are ratty because
of snowboard traffic or less than proficient skiers.

DF is steeper and shorter (it shares the same hill) with most
of the features being permanent (rocks, cliff, etc.) and
inconsistent in presentation and conditions. I take people
down it when they present cocky-ness to me and boast they
can ski anything. I've talked more than one person down it.

Preachers is nearly as steep as DF, the features, as I understand,
are permantent (rocks) but the presentation is much more
consistent than DF.

IS skied Preachers with skill and grace. I, OTOH, dropped a ski
near the top and slid 50' on my butt to recover it with IS
giving me an assist to get upright again.

I think that pretty much covers it.

"Bob Lee" wrote in message
...
taichiskiing wrote:

lal_truckee wrote:
taichiskiing wrote:

Since the slowness does depend on, thus "relative," to the skier's
skill, speed cannot be used to judge the safety of the operation of
skiing. My feeling is that the mountain safety personnel also need
to
be trained to distinguish the good/fast skiing from the
reckless/out-of-control skiing. After all, the main goal/spirit of
skiing remains sport oriented.

I repeat myself ad nauseum:

The deal with skiing in a "slow skiing" zone is that it's not only a
safety issue, it's also the perceived safety issue.

Methinks that makes an issue of the "beginning" of an issue. It's all
depends on how you look at it.

I look at it this way - I just don't see any challenge in skiing fast on
a beginners' slope. Why don't you go ski fast in some more difficult
terrain that isn't full of beginners and where there is a challenge to
it? It takes very little skill to ski fast on easy slopes.


I use the easy slopes to focus on technique - to really focus
on things that don't require great speed.

Bob

"VtSkier" wrote in message
...
(snip)

Uhm, well, we did ski the upper portion of Preachers Passion,
which is steep, bumpy, and the day we were there, icy. Yes,
there is icy (think EasternFirm(tm)) conditions possible in
the Sierras. I would rate this trail as a bit more difficult
than Outer Limits at Killington and close to being on a par
with Devils Fiddle also at Killington.

OL is touted at gnarliest bump run in the east. It is 3/4 of
a mile long with a pretty consistent slope of around 30-35° and
is allowed to bump up. Very often the bumps are ratty because
of snowboard traffic or less than proficient skiers.

DF is steeper and shorter (it shares the same hill) with most
of the features being permanent (rocks, cliff, etc.) and
inconsistent in presentation and conditions. I take people
down it when they present cocky-ness to me and boast they
can ski anything. I've talked more than one person down it.

Preachers is nearly as steep as DF, the features, as I understand,
are permantent (rocks) but the presentation is much more
consistent than DF.

IS skied Preachers with skill and grace. I, OTOH, dropped a ski
near the top and slid 50' on my butt to recover it with IS
giving me an assist to get upright again.

I think that pretty much covers it.

Hi VtSkier,
I thought IS ski his skis flat without edging or did I get that wrong?
If I am correct about him skiing without edging how does he control his skis
and make turns around the moguls especially on the steeps. If he can ski
terrain
similar to Outer Limits and do it with grace he is a decent skier.

PS. Did the cold front bring snow to Killington? If so, how much and does
it finally
look like winter?

Thanks,
JQ

Bob Lee wrote:
In article ,
VtSkier wrote:

Bob Lee wrote:
taichiskiing wrote:

Bob Lee wrote:
taichiskiing wrote:

lal_truckee wrote:
taichiskiing wrote:
Since the slowness does depend on, thus "relative," to the skier's
skill, speed cannot be used to judge the safety of the operation of
skiing. My feeling is that the mountain safety personnel also need to
be trained to distinguish the good/fast skiing from the
reckless/out-of-control skiing. After all, the main goal/spirit of
skiing remains sport oriented.
I repeat myself ad nauseum:

The deal with skiing in a "slow skiing" zone is that it's not only a
safety issue, it's also the perceived safety issue.
Methinks that makes an issue of the "beginning" of an issue. It's all
depends on how you look at it.
I look at it this way - I just don't see any challenge in skiing fast on
a beginners' slope. Why don't you go ski fast in some more difficult
terrain that isn't full of beginners and where there is a challenge to
it? It takes very little skill to ski fast on easy slopes.

Ski fast in difficult terrain - can you do it, or are you just a gaper
(gapper?) that can only ski fast in easy areas?
Jealous? It shows.
Jealous of what? I've got in 20 days of skiing so far.

I was wondering where have you been, and was hoping you were not buried
somewhere in the recent NM's record snow storms; glad to see that
you're still alive and kicking.

Or the grumpy old fart just acting up?
Seriously, answer the question - why don't you go ski fast in an area
where it's a challenge instead of bombing down beginner slopes where
people are learning? Aren't you good enough to ski fast in difficult
areas or can you only do it in beginner areas?
Uh, Bob,
There may have been a mis-interpretation of what I wrote here.

I noted that IS zipped through a marked "SLOW" area. The reason
for us being there was in the first case, the "SLOW" area was
an intersection of several trails coming togther, then diverging
again. There was no avoiding this and going elsewhere. In the
second case, it was near the bottom where ALL the trails dumped
out when approaching the lift. Crowded and all kinds of skiers
together.

Well maybe I am laboring under a misconception, but the video I've seen
of him is definitely on beginner terrain. Would you say that the
terrain at the intersection you're describing is difficult or easy or
what?

Part of the point was that someone said (you): "Go somewhere else
to ski fast." I am pointing out that this wasn't possible. The
terrain we were skiing varied from blue to black and this intersection
which was relatively flat was a joining and division of those trails
and some green connectors.

Again, no avoiding, so the "go elsewhere and ski fast"
cannot apply.

Why not? Maybe it'd help to know what the terrain at the intersection
is like - you mention above that there are all levels of skiers there
and it's approaching a lift, so I assume it's beginner terrain with
beginner skiers. Why couldn't he ski fast on difficult terrain and not
when he gets to the "slow" area which I assume is easy for the reasons
stated?

Bob, Bob, Bob, re-read the post. There were two different areas
where SLOW was indicated. The intersection noted AND the lift base
where EVERYBODY gets together. The SLOW areas are such because all
kinds of skiers have to maneuver through and crowding is high.

I say, and I think you do too, in those areas SLOW down!!!

Bob

JQ wrote:
"VtSkier" wrote in message
...
(snip)
Uhm, well, we did ski the upper portion of Preachers Passion,
which is steep, bumpy, and the day we were there, icy. Yes,
there is icy (think EasternFirm(tm)) conditions possible in
the Sierras. I would rate this trail as a bit more difficult
than Outer Limits at Killington and close to being on a par
with Devils Fiddle also at Killington.

OL is touted at gnarliest bump run in the east. It is 3/4 of
a mile long with a pretty consistent slope of around 30-35° and
is allowed to bump up. Very often the bumps are ratty because
of snowboard traffic or less than proficient skiers.

DF is steeper and shorter (it shares the same hill) with most
of the features being permanent (rocks, cliff, etc.) and
inconsistent in presentation and conditions. I take people
down it when they present cocky-ness to me and boast they
can ski anything. I've talked more than one person down it.

Preachers is nearly as steep as DF, the features, as I understand,
are permantent (rocks) but the presentation is much more
consistent than DF.

IS skied Preachers with skill and grace. I, OTOH, dropped a ski
near the top and slid 50' on my butt to recover it with IS
giving me an assist to get upright again.

I think that pretty much covers it.

Hi VtSkier,
I thought IS ski his skis flat without edging or did I get that wrong?
If I am correct about him skiing without edging how does he control his skis
and make turns around the moguls especially on the steeps. If he can ski
terrain
similar to Outer Limits and do it with grace he is a decent skier.

Yes, he is a decent skier.

"Flatboarding" is as I described, not so much keeping the skis
perfectly flat and not edging as keeping the skis very close together
so that they act as one. This is really quite pretty to watch on
groomed slopes. He certainly does edge for control. Thinks almost
mono ski here. The technique begins to fail as the slope gets less
consistent. IS wasn't flatboarding on Preachers.

PS. Did the cold front bring snow to Killington? If so, how much and does
it finally
look like winter?

Actually the ground in the woods is finally covered, but I still
wouln't ski it. Yesterday sucked. The first couple of hours the
conditions were ball bearing (sleet) under foot which was interesting,
but ice pellets at 40mph in the face is not fun. Without getting
warmer, the ice pellets got wetter and wetter, so that by 2:30, my
last ride up I was soaked (TG for Goretex). I sat and swapped lies
with a couple of patrollers until end-of-day.

Remember that even a bad day skiing is better than a good day
doing anything else.

It's snowing lightly now. Temps are not supposed to go above
25 AND be in the single digits plus and minus for the next
couple of nights. Should provide good manmade by the weekend.

I'm working Friday and Saturday this week.


Thanks,
JQ

VtSkier wrote:


"Flatboarding" is as I described, not so much keeping the skis
perfectly flat and not edging as keeping the skis very close together
so that they act as one. This is really quite pretty to watch on
groomed slopes. He certainly does edge for control. Thinks almost
mono ski here. The technique begins to fail as the slope gets less
consistent. IS wasn't flatboarding on Preachers.

How is this different than the old-school knees-together technique
practiced by Stein Erickson et. al. ?

Obviously, that technique works, even if it's not in fashion anymore.

//Walt

Walt wrote:
VtSkier wrote:


"Flatboarding" is as I described, not so much keeping the skis
perfectly flat and not edging as keeping the skis very close together
so that they act as one. This is really quite pretty to watch on
groomed slopes. He certainly does edge for control. Thinks almost
mono ski here. The technique begins to fail as the slope gets less
consistent. IS wasn't flatboarding on Preachers.

How is this different than the old-school knees-together technique
practiced by Stein Erickson et. al. ?

Obviously, that technique works, even if it's not in fashion anymore.

What's missing from decades of old-school knees-together technique as
learned by the 60s-80s "expert" masses and still occasionally
encountered today (and incidentally something Stein could actually do;
cf any of his movies) was carving turns with that old-school
knees-together technique. The old-school knees-together carved turn is
something to behold, but it's more showmanship than useful skill IMO.

P.S. What's different is the primary (and only?) proponent of
Flatboarding" doesn't seem to realize its not new, but old; it's not
something oldtimers haven't learned but something oldtimers know and
have largely discarded as unsuitable with today's equipment.