Skiing with Ichin Shen

First off, Ichin Shen is a gentleman and a
very good skier. I thoroughly enjoyed the time
I spent with him. Here are a few other
observations:

No, he never uses poles. Yes, he holds his
arms as described over his head, but does not
flail them about. I noted that he makes slight
"timing" motions with his arms when initiating
a turn, not unlike a pole-carrying skier.

He skis with his feet very tightly held
together. This is part of his "flat boarding"
that he espouses. Making the skis act as one.

I personally think this is a bit outmoded for
most use and said so. I learned to ski this
way, way back when we would put a glove between
our knees and not lose it. Looks pretty but I
think a shoulder's width of separation is more
efficient for most conditions.

Conditions? Yes, well we had conditions to
contend with. Skiing at Sierra-at-Tahoe that
day was just like skiing at Killington on a
good day. We had "EasternFirm(tm)", we had
machine groomed. We had icy bumps. I dropped
a ski at the top of Preacher's Passion and
IS helped me to recover it and get back into
shape for the descent. Other than that we
mainly skied fast groomers. IS skis generally
faster than I do so I had much time to watch
his progress. I did worry a bit when he zoomed
through a "SLOW, NO WARNINGS" area at Sierra.

Ichin Shen and I parted, I believe, as friends
and decided that both of us make "good turns".
I look forward to skiing with him again,
probably next year.

==============================
The main complaint I had from that day was the
fact that the area allows the use of ski-
bikes. This is a metal contraption with a ski
aft and a ski on a steerable column forward
with handle bars. The operator wears boots
with skis (!) just slighly longer than the
boots attached to use as outriggers. This guy
at the area that day generally bombed the
trails just inside the woods line. Now on a
crowded slope, I tend to ski the woods line.
This made me a prime target, and though he
never hit me, he came VERY close on one occasion.

I think the extra weight and increased number of
sharp edges could be devastating. Not to mention
the high speed. I attended an accident in which
a skier had been hit by a boarder which badly cut
his leg. Bad enough so that the leg was
eventually amputated (below knee) we found out
later. I would not like to be hit by one of these
ski-bikes.

This allowing this contraption on the slope AND
their severe insistence on speed control, they
had speed control people on the slope that day,
is a contradiction and I would suggest their
risk management people look into it. I am planning
to write to the area of my concern.

VtSkier wrote:
First off, Ichin Shen is a gentleman and a
very good skier. I thoroughly enjoyed the time
I spent with him.

Thanks for coming to Tahoe to check me out. I too enjoyed our meeting
and skiing together. Seeing is to believing, it clears a lot of
posturing smokes and misunderstanding as well. VtSkier is a very good
skier too, elegant, academic, if not a bit techy/technical.

Here are a few other observations:

No, he never uses poles. Yes, he holds his
arms as described over his head, but does not
flail them about. I noted that he makes slight
"timing" motions with his arms when initiating
a turn, not unlike a pole-carrying skier.

That's a part of Taichi Skiing. I use the shoulders to initiate and use
my back muscles to move/rotate the pelvis to move the femurs (while the
femurs themselves may or may not move in their sockets) to turn. When I
have a good/hard skiing day, I usually get a sore/tired shoulders.


He skis with his feet very tightly held
together. This is part of his "flat boarding"
that he espouses. Making the skis act as one.

Very good observation,


I personally think this is a bit outmoded for
most use and said so. I learned to ski this
way, way back when we would put a glove between
our knees and not lose it. Looks pretty but I
think a shoulder's width of separation is more
efficient for most conditions.

I stick my knees together not just to use/move them as "one knee" (two
is stronger than one), but also so that they can "rest" against each
other, and make them less tiring.


Conditions? Yes, well we had conditions to
contend with. Skiing at Sierra-at-Tahoe that
day was just like skiing at Killington on a
good day. We had "EasternFirm(tm)", we had
machine groomed. We had icy bumps. I dropped
a ski at the top of Preacher's Passion and
IS helped me to recover it and get back into
shape for the descent. Other than that we
mainly skied fast groomers.

Those East Bowl's moguls were big and icy, didn't they?

Glad that you enjoyed "our/western" "EasternFirm(tm)," and I had fun
chasing you down the "Bashful."

IS skis generally
faster than I do so I had much time to watch
his progress. I did worry a bit when he zoomed
through a "SLOW, NO WARNINGS" area at Sierra.

I did slowing down, didn't you see I turned?

Actually, I still haven't figured out what that sign means, maybe it
says if you go "fast" (reckless), your ticket may get pulled (without
warning), but I don't equate "fast skiing" to "reckless skiing," and I
usually ski on the edge of the slow zone.


Ichin Shen and I parted, I believe, as friends
and decided that both of us make "good turns".
I look forward to skiing with him again,
probably next year.

Definitely. Until then,

Happy skiing,
IS

taichiskiing wrote:
VtSkier wrote:
First off, Ichin Shen is a gentleman and a
very good skier. I thoroughly enjoyed the time
I spent with him.

Thanks for coming to Tahoe to check me out. I too enjoyed our meeting
and skiing together. Seeing is to believing, it clears a lot of
posturing smokes and misunderstanding as well. VtSkier is a very good
skier too, elegant, academic, if not a bit techy/technical.

I try to be "effective" with my skiing. I guess this sometimes
results in appearing technical. I also skied with LAL last week.
He might have an opinion also.

Here are a few other observations:

No, he never uses poles. Yes, he holds his
arms as described over his head, but does not
flail them about. I noted that he makes slight
"timing" motions with his arms when initiating
a turn, not unlike a pole-carrying skier.

That's a part of Taichi Skiing. I use the shoulders to initiate and use
my back muscles to move/rotate the pelvis to move the femurs (while the
femurs themselves may or may not move in their sockets) to turn. When I
have a good/hard skiing day, I usually get a sore/tired shoulders.

I might attribute that to holding your arms up.

He skis with his feet very tightly held
together. This is part of his "flat boarding"
that he espouses. Making the skis act as one.

Very good observation,

http://www.natives.co.uk/news/2003/0703/29mono.htm

I personally think this is a bit outmoded for
most use and said so. I learned to ski this
way, way back when we would put a glove between
our knees and not lose it. Looks pretty but I
think a shoulder's width of separation is more
efficient for most conditions.

I stick my knees together not just to use/move them as "one knee" (two
is stronger than one), but also so that they can "rest" against each
other, and make them less tiring.

Conditions? Yes, well we had conditions to
contend with. Skiing at Sierra-at-Tahoe that
day was just like skiing at Killington on a
good day. We had "EasternFirm(tm)", we had
machine groomed. We had icy bumps. I dropped
a ski at the top of Preacher's Passion and
IS helped me to recover it and get back into
shape for the descent. Other than that we
mainly skied fast groomers.

Those East Bowl's moguls were big and icy, didn't they?

Glad that you enjoyed "our/western" "EasternFirm(tm)," and I had fun
chasing you down the "Bashful."

IS skis generally
faster than I do so I had much time to watch
his progress. I did worry a bit when he zoomed
through a "SLOW, NO WARNINGS" area at Sierra.

I did slowing down, didn't you see I turned?

Occasionally, yes.

Actually, I still haven't figured out what that sign means, maybe it
says if you go "fast" (reckless), your ticket may get pulled (without
warning), but I don't equate "fast skiing" to "reckless skiing," and I
usually ski on the edge of the slow zone.

Skiing the edge of a slow zone is good, if you can do it.
Most slow zones are either near the lift at the bottom or
where trails merge. In the latter, edges are hard to come
by because you are skiing across merging trails. As for
what "slow" means:

Officer: You were doing 50 mph in the 25mph school zone.

Ferrari driver: But Officer, I was in perfect control, I
would have never hit anyone.

Officer: The speed limit is the speed limit, here's your
ticket for speeding.

That argument for being in control is what I hear most often
when I bust someone at K for going too fast through a "slow"
zone. Ski instructors hate to be stopped for speeding.

Ichin Shen and I parted, I believe, as friends
and decided that both of us make "good turns".
I look forward to skiing with him again,
probably next year.

Definitely. Until then,

As I said I thoroughly enjoyed my day with you and hope
to do it again.

Happy skiing,
IS

VtSkier wrote:
I try to be "effective" with my skiing. I guess this sometimes
results in appearing technical. I also skied with LAL last week.
He might have an opinion also.

I skied with you a few years back, very impressive I thought until the
over-the-handlebars trick


Most slow zones are either near the lift at the bottom or
where trails merge. In the latter, edges are hard to come
by because you are skiing across merging trails. As for
what "slow" means:

Officer: You were doing 50 mph in the 25mph school zone.

Snip story

But surely that's the problem, there isn't a speed limit posted (and
even if there was, would we know how fast we were going). WHat is slow
for you and me woulkd be screamingly fast for a newbie.
Perhaps they should install one of those radar thingies that display the
speed you are going and say slow down (or speed up)...

"BrritSki" wrote in message
...
VtSkier wrote:
I try to be "effective" with my skiing. I guess this sometimes
results in appearing technical. I also skied with LAL last week.
He might have an opinion also.

I skied with you a few years back, very impressive I thought until the
over-the-handlebars trick


Most slow zones are either near the lift at the bottom or
where trails merge. In the latter, edges are hard to come
by because you are skiing across merging trails. As for
what "slow" means:

Officer: You were doing 50 mph in the 25mph school zone.

Snip story

But surely that's the problem, there isn't a speed limit posted (and even
if there was, would we know how fast we were going). WHat is slow for you
and me woulkd be screamingly fast for a newbie.
Perhaps they should install one of those radar thingies that display the
speed you are going and say slow down (or speed up)...

The radar thing would cause many to see how fast they can go. The mountain
ambassadors help but many that are put to speed control duty want you to
barely be moving.

JQ
Dancing on the edge

VtSkier wrote:
taichiskiing wrote:
VtSkier wrote:
First off, Ichin Shen is a gentleman and a
very good skier. I thoroughly enjoyed the time
I spent with him.

Thanks for coming to Tahoe to check me out. I too enjoyed our meeting
and skiing together. Seeing is to believing, it clears a lot of
posturing smokes and misunderstanding as well. VtSkier is a very good
skier too, elegant, academic, if not a bit techy/technical.

I try to be "effective" with my skiing. I guess this sometimes
results in appearing technical. I also skied with LAL last week.
He might have an opinion also.

My opinion is soft snow is more desirable than firm snow, 3D snow more
desirable than 2D snow. Is that what you meant? Or were you fishing for
a complement? I've got one here somewhere - wait while I dig it out -
OK, here goes. The one time I let VtSkier take first line (off Gunner's
Knob) his effortless use of light touch edging was both elegant and
effective in the 8 inch or so of powder. So: where VtSkier solicits an
observation of "effective" I would also add elegant and effortless. Tres
chic.


Here are a few other observations:

No, he never uses poles. Yes, he holds his
arms as described over his head, but does not
flail them about. I noted that he makes slight
"timing" motions with his arms when initiating
a turn, not unlike a pole-carrying skier.

That's a part of Taichi Skiing. I use the shoulders to initiate and use
my back muscles to move/rotate the pelvis to move the femurs (while the
femurs themselves may or may not move in their sockets) to turn. When I
have a good/hard skiing day, I usually get a sore/tired shoulders.

I might attribute that to holding your arms up.

He skis with his feet very tightly held
together. This is part of his "flat boarding"
that he espouses. Making the skis act as one.

Very good observation,

http://www.natives.co.uk/news/2003/0703/29mono.htm

I personally think this is a bit outmoded for
most use and said so. I learned to ski this
way, way back when we would put a glove between
our knees and not lose it. Looks pretty but I
think a shoulder's width of separation is more
efficient for most conditions.

I stick my knees together not just to use/move them as "one knee" (two
is stronger than one), but also so that they can "rest" against each
other, and make them less tiring.

Conditions? Yes, well we had conditions to
contend with. Skiing at Sierra-at-Tahoe that
day was just like skiing at Killington on a
good day. We had "EasternFirm(tm)", we had
machine groomed. We had icy bumps. I dropped
a ski at the top of Preacher's Passion and
IS helped me to recover it and get back into
shape for the descent. Other than that we
mainly skied fast groomers.

Those East Bowl's moguls were big and icy, didn't they?

Glad that you enjoyed "our/western" "EasternFirm(tm)," and I had fun
chasing you down the "Bashful."

IS skis generally
faster than I do so I had much time to watch
his progress. I did worry a bit when he zoomed
through a "SLOW, NO WARNINGS" area at Sierra.

I did slowing down, didn't you see I turned?

Occasionally, yes.

Actually, I still haven't figured out what that sign means, maybe it
says if you go "fast" (reckless), your ticket may get pulled (without
warning), but I don't equate "fast skiing" to "reckless skiing," and I
usually ski on the edge of the slow zone.

Skiing the edge of a slow zone is good, if you can do it.
Most slow zones are either near the lift at the bottom or
where trails merge. In the latter, edges are hard to come
by because you are skiing across merging trails. As for
what "slow" means:

Officer: You were doing 50 mph in the 25mph school zone.

Ferrari driver: But Officer, I was in perfect control, I
would have never hit anyone.

Officer: The speed limit is the speed limit, here's your
ticket for speeding.

That argument for being in control is what I hear most often
when I bust someone at K for going too fast through a "slow"
zone. Ski instructors hate to be stopped for speeding.

Something to recall - in California the speed limit is maximum speed -
conditions can reduce the limit, and it's not unheard of to be ticketed
for speeding when going 35 in a 50 zone if conditions are poor.

The deal with speeding in a "slow skiing" zone is that it's not only a
safety issue, it's also the perceived safety issue. If a beginner is
frightened by a skier speeding by him (a skier who is actually quite
safe and in control) it's a problem; frightened beginners don't return,
the client counts diminish, the lifts close, and we're all out of luck.


Ichin Shen and I parted, I believe, as friends
and decided that both of us make "good turns".
I look forward to skiing with him again,
probably next year.

Definitely. Until then,

As I said I thoroughly enjoyed my day with you and hope
to do it again.

Happy skiing,

A noble sentiment.

BrritSki wrote:
VtSkier wrote:
I try to be "effective" with my skiing. I guess this sometimes
results in appearing technical. I also skied with LAL last week.
He might have an opinion also.

I skied with you a few years back, very impressive I thought until the
over-the-handlebars trick

And I still have the video another friend took. The local
patrol has requested the the video as a training aid on
the error of a too-short ski length (152cm remember?).

My shortest skis now are 172cm Atomics.

Most slow zones are either near the lift at the bottom or
where trails merge. In the latter, edges are hard to come
by because you are skiing across merging trails. As for
what "slow" means:

Officer: You were doing 50 mph in the 25mph school zone.

Snip story

But surely that's the problem, there isn't a speed limit posted (and
even if there was, would we know how fast we were going). WHat is slow
for you and me woulkd be screamingly fast for a newbie.
Perhaps they should install one of those radar thingies that display the
speed you are going and say slow down (or speed up)...

Yeah, you're right, it is hard to determine "slow". My way
is if I'm comfortable without my goggles (wind only, not
temperature), I'm going slow. Also, maybe almost the point
of being scary for a second day skier would be an appropriate
"slow". Certainly a speed at which a snowplow (wedge) is
comfortable and not putting undue strain on you legs is also
"slow". A speed at which newbies around you are not looking
askance might be OK.

"Slow" is different that "in control" and is appropriate where
trails merge because of blind-siding where no amount of control
can protect you and in newbie areas where the idea is a good,
non-scary experience for the newbie. The people who want to go
fast have a lot more of the mountain available than the newbies
anyway, so WTF, just go slow. Please. It'll keep my boss off
my back at the very least because I'm the winner when it
comes to NOT pulling tickets.

lal_truckee wrote:
VtSkier wrote:
taichiskiing wrote:
VtSkier wrote:
First off, Ichin Shen is a gentleman and a
very good skier. I thoroughly enjoyed the time
I spent with him.

Thanks for coming to Tahoe to check me out. I too enjoyed our meeting
and skiing together. Seeing is to believing, it clears a lot of
posturing smokes and misunderstanding as well. VtSkier is a very good
skier too, elegant, academic, if not a bit techy/technical.

I try to be "effective" with my skiing. I guess this sometimes
results in appearing technical. I also skied with LAL last week.
He might have an opinion also.

My opinion is soft snow is more desirable than firm snow, 3D snow more
desirable than 2D snow. Is that what you meant? Or were you fishing for
a complement? I've got one here somewhere - wait while I dig it out -

Naw, panning my technique would have been OK too.

OK, here goes. The one time I let VtSkier take first line (off Gunner's
Knob) his effortless use of light touch edging was both elegant and
effective in the 8 inch or so of powder. So: where VtSkier solicits an
observation of "effective" I would also add elegant and effortless. Tres
chic.

Oh blush now I have to say something nice about you...

LAL, with his 205cm Volkl GS skis cuts a lovely figure
coming off a mountain. I can't believe that those graceful,
large, round turns are possible on such dated equipment.

This in spite of a sore back which forces him to quit a bit
earlier than he is used to.

Now back to his comment about me. If that 8" of fine powder
were 1) very much deeper, and/or 2)very much thicker (Sierra
Sement[tm]), I'd have had a much harder time. The last time we
skied, LAL took me over the backside of Alpine, into a foot
of sun-softened mush. He skied it like it was fine fluff, I
could barely turn at all and wound up on the ground more than
once.

(snip a bit)

That argument for being in control is what I hear most often
when I bust someone at K for going too fast through a "slow"
zone. Ski instructors hate to be stopped for speeding.

Something to recall - in California the speed limit is maximum speed -
conditions can reduce the limit, and it's not unheard of to be ticketed
for speeding when going 35 in a 50 zone if conditions are poor.

The deal with speeding in a "slow skiing" zone is that it's not only a
safety issue, it's also the perceived safety issue. If a beginner is
frightened by a skier speeding by him (a skier who is actually quite
safe and in control) it's a problem; frightened beginners don't return,
the client counts diminish, the lifts close, and we're all out of luck.


Ichin Shen and I parted, I believe, as friends
and decided that both of us make "good turns".
I look forward to skiing with him again,
probably next year.

Definitely. Until then,

As I said I thoroughly enjoyed my day with you and hope
to do it again.

Happy skiing,

A noble sentiment.

Indeed!

In article om,
"taichiskiing" writes:
I did slowing down, didn't you see I turned?

Doesn't count. Flat skis don't slow down when turning.

Bruno.

VtSkier wrote:
BrritSki wrote:

VtSkier wrote:

I try to be "effective" with my skiing. I guess this sometimes
results in appearing technical. I also skied with LAL last week.
He might have an opinion also.

I skied with you a few years back, very impressive I thought until the
over-the-handlebars trick


And I still have the video another friend took. The local
patrol has requested the the video as a training aid on
the error of a too-short ski length (152cm remember?).

Oh yes...

Yeah, you're right, it is hard to determine "slow". My way
is if I'm comfortable without my goggles (wind only, not
temperature), I'm going slow. Also, maybe almost the point
of being scary for a second day skier would be an appropriate
"slow". Certainly a speed at which a snowplow (wedge) is
comfortable and not putting undue strain on you legs is also
"slow". A speed at which newbies around you are not looking
askance might be OK.

I hardly ever ski without either goggles or sunglasses, so I wouldn't
use that test, the other suggestions are worth consideration.

"Slow" is different that "in control" and is appropriate where
trails merge because of blind-siding where no amount of control
can protect you and in newbie areas where the idea is a good,
non-scary experience for the newbie. The people who want to go
fast have a lot more of the mountain available than the newbies
anyway, so WTF, just go slow. Please.

Ha, you don't need to convince me, I a great believer in appropriate
speed, either skiing or driving.