Okay to ask basic questions?

"Dave M" wrote in message
...
foot2foot wrote:

"Richard Henry" wrote in message
news:FJyic.32297$ab3.6356@fed1read02...

"foot2foot" wrote in message
...

Interestingly enough, all the real powder eleven people that
are actually able to communicate have told me the same. To
turn in pow, just carve the same way you would otherwise.
Forget all that jumping up and down crap, unless you have
to for some reason. The old timer director of the ski school
at Snowhaven, Idaho told me about how the Austrian guides
used to do it in the forties, and before. Just go fast enough to
where you surf up on top of the powder. How to turn? Just
counter rotate. Times change, but maybe not all that much.

You're an Eastern skier, right?


I'm not sure Snowhaven, (Grangeville) Idaho would be called
east, It's more north central Idaho..

Cottonwood Bluff is nie also.

No ski areas in Winchester, ID tho.

Dave


Cottonwood Butte is nice, there's uncut tree skiing, and a
thirty foot or so cliff, they get a lot of snow, but I seem to
recall they really need a tiller.

I imagine anyone there that really wants to ski would just
go to Brundage, Spokane, Bluewood, Anthony, Silver or
Schweitzer anyway tho.

Then again they could go to Magic Mountain, Pomerelle,
Pebble Creek, Kelly Canyon, Rotarun, Arco (don't recall
the area name) Bogus, Lost Trail or Sun Canyon.

I'm not sure Snowhaven, (Grangeville) Idaho would be called
east, It's more north central Idaho..


Is Snowhaven still open? It disappeared from the guide books in the early 90's
but now and then I see a reference to it.



TCS (The Colorado Skier)
Colorado Springs - Gateway to Colorado Ski Country

Then again they could go to Magic Mountain, Pomerelle,
Pebble Creek, Kelly Canyon, Rotarun, Arco (don't recall
the area name) Bogus, Lost Trail or Sun Canyon

Arco would be Blizzard Mountain.

"Sun Canyon" ??

TCS (The Colorado Skier)
Colorado Springs - Gateway to Colorado Ski Country

"TCS" wrote in message
...
I'm not sure Snowhaven, (Grangeville) Idaho would be called
east, It's more north central Idaho..


Is Snowhaven still open? It disappeared from the guide books in the early
90's
but now and then I see a reference to it.



TCS (The Colorado Skier)
Colorado Springs - Gateway to Colorado Ski Country

Shure, and still again, they're ready to add a few thousand
(one or more) vertical. They have it. It's city owned, but
they have to fight with themselves over the environmental
impacts, etc. So you knew of Rotarun? I'll bet there's one
in Oregon you don't know. You have to find it, then
you have to keep the secret. It's not Ferguson Ridge
either.

Then there's one in Lakeside, Oregon, Warner Valley.
Oh wait, I'm confused.

Just over the border from that in Cal is Cedar Pass.

You know, I was heartbroken to find that I missed the
area in Wyoming that until last year still had a single chair
out of the forties. Now it's a quad. I think it's Pine Creek
or something. I did find out the Mad River Glen indeed
does still have a single chair. Even though I'm an Eastern
skier, that's a long flight.

Did you know there's a non op apparently ready to go in
Island Park, Idaho? Right next to a neat old tavern/cabin
motel, pretty much the same as it's been. Sunrise Inn or
something. There's also supposed to be an old lift on the
back side of that lake by Island Park, but I've never been
there in the summer to see it. The Sunrise has some sort of
hydraulic chair.

The same setup sits unused and rusting in Bear Gulch,
Idaho. Cans of ATF all over the lift shack. There's a big
old pump, then tubes go into a big concrete block that the
bullwheel pokes out of. No one seems to know what type
of chair either is. It looks as though they just shut the doors
and walked away.

There are two other lost areas I know of, both completely
gone, one on the way out of Targhee, and one on the way
down to the Snake river out of Cambridge.

Did you know about Little Alps, next to Anthony Lakes?
The lodge is still there, siding gone, filled with road sand.
Kind of a heartbreaker in a way. I guess it was quite a
looker once. The cross country lodge at Anthony is small
but spectacular though. CCC authenticity.

There's a mystery area in Montana I can't find. It's
supposed to be around Choteau, (not Teton Pass) with a
common sort of name. It supposedly has a chair that goes
straight up, and getting down is nothing short of taking
your life in your hands, no other way down. Short, quick
and deadly. People tell me they've skied it.

So you knew of Rotarun? I'll bet there's one
in Oregon you don't know. You have to find it, then
you have to keep the secret. It's not Ferguson Ridge
either.

Open or closed?

Then there's one in Lakeside, Oregon, Warner Valley.
Oh wait, I'm confused.

That would be Warner Canyon in Lakeview.

Just over the border from that in Cal is Cedar Pass.

Still open? Last data I have is 1992.


Did you know there's a non op apparently ready to go in
Island Park, Idaho? Right next to a neat old tavern/cabin
motel, pretty much the same as it's been. Sunrise Inn or
something. There's also supposed to be an old lift on the
back side of that lake by Island Park, but I've never been
there in the summer to see it. The Sunrise has some sort of
hydraulic chair.


"Island Park" doesn't mean anything to me. Got another town reference?

The same setup sits unused and rusting in Bear Gulch,
Idaho. Cans of ATF all over the lift shack. There's a big
old pump, then tubes go into a big concrete block that the
bullwheel pokes out of. No one seems to know what type
of chair either is. It looks as though they just shut the doors
and walked away.

That chairlift was installed about 1966. Could be a Riblet or Heron. But, I
can't tell without seeing it.

There are two other lost areas I know of, both completely
gone, one on the way out of Targhee, and one on the way
down to the Snake river out of Cambridge.

There were 3 not too far from Driggs. The one near Cambridge is Hitt Mountain.
T-bar and rope. Closed in early 90's.

Did you know about Little Alps, next to Anthony Lakes?

Mid-60's, 3 rope tows

There's a mystery area in Montana I can't find. It's
supposed to be around Choteau, (not Teton Pass) with a
common sort of name. It supposedly has a chair that goes
straight up, and getting down is nothing short of taking
your life in your hands, no other way down. Short, quick
and deadly. People tell me they've skied it.

Hmm. The only area I have near Choteau is Teton Pass which changed its name to
Rocky Mtn Hi in 1989 and closed around 1995. It did have a chairlift.

Keep 'em coming!

TCS (Lost ski areas are us)



TCS (The Colorado Skier)
Colorado Springs - Gateway to Colorado Ski Country

"TCS" wrote in message
...
So you knew of Rotarun? I'll bet there's one
in Oregon you don't know. You have to find it, then
you have to keep the secret. It's not Ferguson Ridge
either.

Open or closed?

It runs. It needs to run.

Then there's one in Lakeside, Oregon, Warner Valley.
Oh wait, I'm confused.

That would be Warner Canyon in Lakeview.

Oh, then I must mean Sun Valley.

Just over the border from that in Cal is Cedar Pass.

Still open? Last data I have is 1992.

Skied it two years ago, seemed to be going
strong.


Did you know there's a non op apparently ready to go in
Island Park, Idaho? Right next to a neat old tavern/cabin
motel, pretty much the same as it's been. Sunrise Inn or
something. There's also supposed to be an old lift on the
back side of that lake by Island Park, but I've never been
there in the summer to see it. The Sunrise has some sort of
hydraulic chair.


"Island Park" doesn't mean anything to me. Got another town reference?


Try MS Streets and Trips. Cheap (if you wait for a
rebate), simple to use, adequate. South of West
Yellowstone. Island Park. *Big* on the snowmobiling.
Highway 20. Henry's lake. Mac's Inn. Ashton. Chester.
Rexburg. There's Sunrise Inn, and there's supposed
to be a chair still up behind Henry's lake.



The same setup sits unused and rusting in Bear Gulch,
Idaho. Cans of ATF all over the lift shack. There's a big
old pump, then tubes go into a big concrete block that the
bullwheel pokes out of. No one seems to know what type
of chair either is. It looks as though they just shut the doors
and walked away.

That chairlift was installed about 1966. Could be a Riblet or Heron.
But, I
can't tell without seeing it.

Got an FTP so I can upload scans? How many megs can
you handle (email is valid, remove appropriate stuff) ?

There are two other lost areas I know of, both completely
gone, one on the way out of Targhee, and one on the way
down to the Snake river out of Cambridge.

There were 3 not too far from Driggs. The one near Cambridge is Hitt
Mountain.
T-bar and rope. Closed in early 90's.



Did you know about Little Alps, next to Anthony Lakes?

Mid-60's, 3 rope tows

There's a mystery area in Montana I can't find. It's
supposed to be around Choteau, (not Teton Pass) with a
common sort of name. It supposedly has a chair that goes
straight up, and getting down is nothing short of taking
your life in your hands, no other way down. Short, quick
and deadly. People tell me they've skied it.

Hmm. The only area I have near Choteau is Teton Pass which changed its
name to
Rocky Mtn Hi in 1989 and closed around 1995. It did have a chairlift.

Still does. Unless it's a different Teton, which I doubt.

Teton Pass is going strong, I skied it last year. Beautiful,
authentic a-frame lodge. I'm trying to remember that
Rocky Mountain High thing, I thought it referred to one
of the other big sky state areas. My first thought is
Great Divide. Teton Pass is a ski club area. Well
administered, financially solid. Marshall in Missoula
went down this year, but I think it's more of a book
keeping move.

There's another ski club area, Bear Paw, in Havre. I was
going to ski it again this year. I was just going to Havre,
then I left. Stupid me eh?

I have heard of this mystery area more than once. I
*really* want to find it.

Keep 'em coming!

TCS (Lost ski areas are us)


Man, where you gittin your info?

I suppose now you'll tell me Badger Mountain in
Waterville, Washington is closed. If nothing else it's
interesting as all get out. Until last year, it was the same
as it was in 1938. 6 to 800 some feet of vert, rope tow
(rope one) almost all the way up, 38 Dodge truck. Truck
is still there, but they put in a Doppelmyer? T last year.
The remnants of the tow, including model T wheels for
the return mounted on trees, are still there. So, rope one
is lost at least....

I suppose you knew of Tamarack (not the new one)
Idaho, or North South ski bowl?

There's another interesting thing. If you go north from
the Wallowa canyon in Oregon, on hwy 3 toward
Clarkston, there's a state park in Wash. on the way
there. It has what looks like the remnants of a rope
tow that had night skiing.


TCS (The Colorado Skier)
Colorado Springs - Gateway to Colorado Ski Country

TCS wrote:
Did you know there's a non op apparently ready to go in
Island Park, Idaho? Right next to a neat old tavern/cabin
motel, pretty much the same as it's been. Sunrise Inn or
something. There's also supposed to be an old lift on the
back side of that lake by Island Park, but I've never been
there in the summer to see it. The Sunrise has some sort of
hydraulic chair.

"Island Park" doesn't mean anything to me. Got another town reference?

What, you didn't try any of the map servers?

Try http://maps.msn.com/map.aspx?ID=27Ci...+United+States

or http://tinyurl.com/ywwv5

Exactly what you'd get if you bought MS S & T for
twenty bucks after rebate.

There is what looks to me like a ski area up for sale.
It might be Sunset Lakes Inn or some such. The authentic
old building and the property are up for sale I heard. He
doesn't represent it as a ski area though. There's some
cabins in the back, I don't know how good they are, but
they look solid still. It's all out of the thirties or forties.

It's interesting, Island Park always ends up with lots
of snow right there on the highway. Tens of feet of snow.
Seems like it would make a great little country club, like
that Yellowstone Club in Montana or some such. Your
own ski lift.


"Richard M" wrote in message
om...
Did you know there's a non op apparently ready to go in
Island Park, Idaho? Right next to a neat old tavern/cabin
motel, pretty much the same as it's been. Sunrise Inn or
something. There's also supposed to be an old lift on the
back side of that lake by Island Park, but I've never been
there in the summer to see it. The Sunrise has some sort of
hydraulic chair.




"Richard M" wrote in message
om...


What, you didn't try any of the map servers?

Try
http://maps.msn.com/map.aspx?ID=27Ci...+United+States

or http://tinyurl.com/ywwv5

foot2foot wrote:

"Lisa Horton" wrote in message
...

When I'm calm and the slope isn't too hard, I can link at least several
mostly carved turns. I don't hesitate to resort to a more skidding kind
of turn if I need to turn quickly or want to shed speed as I turn. I
usually use turns to shed speed rather than a wedge.

Don't even worry about carving at this point.

Stop or slow down by using turn shape, or simply
carrying the turns a bit across, or even up the hill.

The wedge itself ain't for naught to actually control
speed. You need to turn.


Next time, I want to work on arm position,

Absolutely essential. The elbows must be ahead of the
body. If the arms aren't at least here, and at least belly
button high, nothing will work. Just drag the poles if you
wish, or use a touch of a pole to the snow to signal the
start of a new turn.

Hold your hands as if you're carrying a big beach ball.
After a time you will begin to *feel* the power that you
have in this position, and the chaos that results when
you're not.

I observed that my natural tendency is to have my arms just forward of
by my sides. I made an effort to keep them more forward, remembering
your beach ball analogy. You're right, hands a bit forward did make me
even more stable.


bringing my inside foot more
parallel,

Try the excercise of traverse (or finishing the previous
turn if you want to link), initiating a turn with a wedge,
putting all weight on the outside ski, then picking up the
tail of the inside ski while leaving the tip on the snow (just
a teensy). Pick up the tail about halfway through the turn.

Or perhaps first, try just traversing across the slope,
picking up the tail of each ski alternately, in the case of
this drill, pick up the tail of each ski alternately as high
as you can, perhaps six to twelve inches. Leave the tip
on the snow.

Once again, learn to feel what it is to balance over the
outside ski. Just put some weight back on the inside ski
if you need to, then try to pick up the tail again.

I observed that when I turn, I'm basically skiing on one ski, with the
other one just kind of coasting. I can easily pick up the inside ski
completely. But when I look at my tracks on the lift back up, I can see
two tracks, so there is enough weight on the inside to leave a track.


At this point, keep your body centered between the skis,
and your shoulders square with the skis. If your body
is centered between the skis when you make a wedge,
you'll already be crossed over either ski if you just leave
it where it is when you pick up the tail.

You're right that the wedge isn't that great for slowing down. But the
balance and weight shift part seems quite easy, merely cooperating with
gravity and centrifugal force rather than fighting them.


and hopefully trying an easy blue run.

When you move to the blues, make those first attempts
*one turn at a time*. Get yourself set, traverse a little
to get going, and turn, all the way around, and across
the hill to a stop. One turn at a time. There's no hurry
here.

On these slopes and speeds, you will probably need to
move the hip a bit to the inside while leaving the
shoulders over the skis, especially at the end of the turn.
You have more speed so you need to crossover a bit
more, but if you move your whole body inside, you'll
fall over to the inside. If you just stay upright, you might
fall to the outside, or lose your edges. As Lito suggests,
and in line with PSIA's direct to parallel ideas, sideslipping
is a good way to practice this hip/knee angulation.

I'll have to remember this for the future, which is where my first blue
run is The sideslipping thing, if I'm understanding it correctly,
that's what is working well for me for shedding speed. Really well, and
really easy.


Also, if you find yourself turning across the hill and up,
then going backward at the end of the turn, you might
want to try facing your body and hands down the hill a
bit at the very end of the turn.

If that's too much for you, then just make sure you only
go *across* the hill to a stop at the end of the turn,
keeping your shoulders square to the skis at all times
instead of letting them rotate up the hill.

Above all, *look up the hill* to make sure no one's about
to plow you over, then pick your times to turn when there's
little or no traffic.

On the steepest hill I skied, doing the S thing down the slope seemed to
control my speed easily. I did try continuing the turn to an uphill
state, but the sideslip skidding thing seemed to work better for me.


I feel that when faced with competing schools of thought for teaching
something, it can be useful to draw from both, especially looking at
what is common between them.

The whole journey from green to blue involves giving
up the big toe edge of the inside ski, and embracing the
pinky edge of the inside ski instead. Narrowing the wedge,
as Lito suggests, doesn't necessarily work directly toward
that goal. The above excercises do. Any kind of wedge
doesn't work at all well on terrain any steeper than
easy green. It's important to dump the big toe edge
of the inside ski as quickly as you can.

I think I don't understand this because the inside ski doesn't seem to
do much. It seems to me the turning action is all about the outside
ski. Or it just seems very obvious to focus on the outside ski, and the
outside big toe.


Regardless of all I've said here, continue to draw from
all you've read and heard, don't let what I've said take
you away from things that have been working for you,
and get you tied up with things that don't at this time.
But you might give them a try.

Sooner or later, any method will get you skiing. It all
depends on how fast you want to get there.

Then, perhaps let us know how it went?

It went very well. All the advice was helpful. I made quite good
progress. Very soon I'll be ready for easier blue runs. And if I'm
lucky, I'll have a chance to see before the season finally ends

Lisa