Adjusting Bindings

"VtSkier"

I agree, you should not set bindings unless you know where the
adjustments and indicators are on that particular model and how they
should be set. but as I have said many times before testing may be common
in the US, but im'e not sure about anywhere else, and anyway in the UK
you couldn't use it in court because the result only shows the state of
the binding when it was tested not at any other time.

Interesting comment, this last.

At Killington, and no doubt other US ski areas, where an accident
resulting in an injury AND the injured is using the mountain's
rental skis, the patrol delivers the boots and skis to the rental
department to be tested for release function. This includes
inspection of boot and binding condition as well as a torque
test. This is recorded and saved against possible future litigation.
Right after the accident is much closer to the time of the accident
than testing in the fall and has more standing in a US court, but
will never be the deciding factor. It only strengthens the claim
that the area has provided equipment that is as safe as it can be
within parameters.


Exactly the same policy was implemented 3-4 years ago at the non US area I
ski. I believe they also check whether the setting on the binding matches
what it was when it left the shop.

Norm wrote:
"VtSkier"

I agree, you should not set bindings unless you know where the
adjustments and indicators are on that particular model and how they
should be set. but as I have said many times before testing may be common
in the US, but im'e not sure about anywhere else, and anyway in the UK
you couldn't use it in court because the result only shows the state of
the binding when it was tested not at any other time.
Interesting comment, this last.

At Killington, and no doubt other US ski areas, where an accident
resulting in an injury AND the injured is using the mountain's
rental skis, the patrol delivers the boots and skis to the rental
department to be tested for release function. This includes
inspection of boot and binding condition as well as a torque
test. This is recorded and saved against possible future litigation.
Right after the accident is much closer to the time of the accident
than testing in the fall and has more standing in a US court, but
will never be the deciding factor. It only strengthens the claim
that the area has provided equipment that is as safe as it can be
within parameters.


Exactly the same policy was implemented 3-4 years ago at the non US area I
ski. I believe they also check whether the setting on the binding matches
what it was when it left the shop.

Herein lies another problem. If the setting does not match
what the docs say it's supposed to be, who is to say who
changed it? Or did the HS student "techie" not set it as
he recorded it in the first place.

It was not required in our shop to actually put a boot in
both bindings. This results once in a while, especially on
a busy Saturday morning, in not having forward pressure/
boot length adjustment done properly for both boots. In
a chairlift situation, this isn't too bad because the boot
won't fit and the customer will go back to the shop, a little
irate, but safe, none the less.

If they carry their rental skis to the gondola and ride to
the top of the mountain, they can be in serious trouble,
either with a too tight binding or one that keeps falling
off (if the setting is close but not right) or not being
able to put their ski on at all. If they are smart, they
will download the lift and if not, they'll try to ski down
the way it is. Sometimes one of us will get to them before
there is a disaster. If we are confident that we can deal
with the setting (me, an old shop rat) we'll fix it. If
not, we'll arrange a transport.

On Mar 9, 9:58 am, VtSkier wrote:
Herein lies another problem. If the setting does not match
what the docs say it's supposed to be, who is to say who
changed it? Or did the HS student "techie" not set it as
he recorded it in the first place.

It was not required in our shop to actually put a boot in
both bindings. This results once in a while, especially on
a busy Saturday morning, in not having forward pressure/
boot length adjustment done properly for both boots. In
a chairlift situation, this isn't too bad because the boot
won't fit and the customer will go back to the shop, a little
irate, but safe, none the less.

If they carry their rental skis to the gondola and ride to
the top of the mountain, they can be in serious trouble,
either with a too tight binding or one that keeps falling
off (if the setting is close but not right) or not being
able to put their ski on at all. If they are smart, they
will download the lift and if not, they'll try to ski down
the way it is. Sometimes one of us will get to them before
there is a disaster. If we are confident that we can deal
with the setting (me, an old shop rat) we'll fix it. If
not, we'll arrange a transport.
A few years back at Silver Star my wife had that happen. The shop rat
(at the only shop at the mountain) set one ski using her boot, then
just set the length of the other binding using the same setting.
Problem was, the bindings weren't mounted the same. I was busy
helping some other folks in our group and wasn't paying attention to
what he was doing. We found out the next morning when she tried to
step in and the back of her boot didn't even make contact with the
binding. Good thing we had a screwdriver with us and were able to get
it adjusted ourselves, as it would've taken about an hour of our time
to go back and catch the bus to the base, find someone competent in
the shop, etc. I had a little "chat" with the supervisor at the end
of the day, but have no idea if it did any good. He at least checked
out her skis to make sure the other settings were appropriate.

TexasSkiNut wrote:
On Mar 9, 9:58 am, VtSkier wrote:
Herein lies another problem. If the setting does not match
what the docs say it's supposed to be, who is to say who
changed it? Or did the HS student "techie" not set it as
he recorded it in the first place.

It was not required in our shop to actually put a boot in
both bindings. This results once in a while, especially on
a busy Saturday morning, in not having forward pressure/
boot length adjustment done properly for both boots. In
a chairlift situation, this isn't too bad because the boot
won't fit and the customer will go back to the shop, a little
irate, but safe, none the less.

If they carry their rental skis to the gondola and ride to
the top of the mountain, they can be in serious trouble,
either with a too tight binding or one that keeps falling
off (if the setting is close but not right) or not being
able to put their ski on at all. If they are smart, they
will download the lift and if not, they'll try to ski down
the way it is. Sometimes one of us will get to them before
there is a disaster. If we are confident that we can deal
with the setting (me, an old shop rat) we'll fix it. If
not, we'll arrange a transport.
A few years back at Silver Star my wife had that happen. The shop rat
(at the only shop at the mountain) set one ski using her boot, then
just set the length of the other binding using the same setting.
Problem was, the bindings weren't mounted the same. I was busy
helping some other folks in our group and wasn't paying attention to
what he was doing. We found out the next morning when she tried to
step in and the back of her boot didn't even make contact with the
binding. Good thing we had a screwdriver with us and were able to get
it adjusted ourselves, as it would've taken about an hour of our time
to go back and catch the bus to the base, find someone competent in
the shop, etc. I had a little "chat" with the supervisor at the end
of the day, but have no idea if it did any good. He at least checked
out her skis to make sure the other settings were appropriate.

Little "chats" frequently do some good. The supervisor is
usually a full time employee, goes to weekly meetings and
has had liability issues drilled into him. If this "slippage"
happens very often, it will be HIS job. So even though your
wife had a bit of a bad time, your "chat" probably saved
6 other people from a bad experience.

"MoonMan" wrote in
:

Mary Malmros wrote:
"MoonMan" wrote in
:

Walt wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Mar 5, 8:36 pm, Alan Fried wrote:

I am probably going to buy skis online. I've never
adjusted bindings to fit a boot. Is it easy to do?

Anybody know what the basics are?


I'll save you a bunch of reading. Every reputable post that
follows will boil down to this: Take your new skis and your boots
to a shop and have the job done by experienced professionals.

Yep. It's just that easy. $15 and ten minutes later it's done.

I do so love the idea that a sixteen year old part timer who started
at the shop last week is an "experienced professional" or am I just
being overly cynical....

You can call him whatever you want, but he has a Winterstieger on his
bench and you don't.

Sorry, what does an automatic Wax, edge and basegrind machine have to
do with fitting and setting bindings? and how do you fit one on a
bench.

Wintersteiger makes several different machines, one of which is designed
to test that bindings release when they should.

Seriously your theory may work in litigous America,

It's pretty plain that you don't even know what my "theory" is.

but I have never
seen a binding test rig over here.

Not knowing where "over here" is, I can't say if that's because they
don't have Wintersteigers (or anything like it) "over there", or if
you've just never been in a shop that had this kind of equipment. I
wouldn't assume, however, that it's some kind of extremely rare beast
only found in "litigious America" just because you've never seen one.

Walt wrote in
:

Mary Malmros wrote:
Walt wrote
Mary Malmros wrote:

You can call him whatever you want, but he has a Winterstieger on
his
bench and you don't.

A Winterstieger? I haven't tried that. Is it like Warsteiner? A
wheat beer? An ale?

No, it's a rauchbier. It's definitely an acquired taste, and
unfortunately not for consuming in large quantities.

Yeah, now that I've googled to see what it is, I don't think I could
consume an entire Winterstieger.

But I'd still like to get one for my tuning bench.

There are several. You don't really need any of them for a tuning bench
unless you're grinding skis, in which case the base grinder is kinda
cool, but still doesn't make much sense for home use. I know one person
(one of my brother's buds in CO) who owns one -- he does his and a whole
bunch of other people's who own a half dozen (or more) pairs each, and
they pay him in sixpacks, so it all works out. When it's called for, I
just pay the big, big fifteen bucks (or whatever it is with my employee
discount) to have the people at the Grind do it.

Anyway, it sounds delicious. Now I'm jealous. Gotta get one for my
tuning bench.

Have you ever gotten hurt at the Shed?

No, not to my knowledge. Where's the Shed?

Stowe. Try the Mountain Ale.

Mary Malmros wrote:
"MoonMan" wrote in
:

Mary Malmros wrote:
"MoonMan" wrote in
:

Walt wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Mar 5, 8:36 pm, Alan Fried wrote:

I am probably going to buy skis online. I've never
adjusted bindings to fit a boot. Is it easy to do?

Anybody know what the basics are?


I'll save you a bunch of reading. Every reputable post that
follows will boil down to this: Take your new skis and your
boots to a shop and have the job done by experienced
professionals.

Yep. It's just that easy. $15 and ten minutes later it's done.

I do so love the idea that a sixteen year old part timer who
started at the shop last week is an "experienced professional" or
am I just being overly cynical....

You can call him whatever you want, but he has a Winterstieger on
his bench and you don't.

Sorry, what does an automatic Wax, edge and basegrind machine have to
do with fitting and setting bindings? and how do you fit one on a
bench.

Wintersteiger makes several different machines, one of which is
designed to test that bindings release when they should.


As I discovered and mentioned in my next post, But here, in the UK, I have
only ever heard of the big automatic tuning machines being refered to as "A
Winterstieger"


Seriously your theory may work in litigous America,

It's pretty plain that you don't even know what my "theory" is.

I thought your theory as stated above was that a very complicated bit of kit
on a bench made a "sixteen year old part timer who started at the shop last
week" an "Experienced Proffessional"

--
Chris *:-)

"MoonMan" wrote in
:

Mary Malmros wrote:
"MoonMan" wrote in
:

Mary Malmros wrote:
"MoonMan" wrote in
:

Walt wrote:
bumpfreaq wrote:
On Mar 5, 8:36 pm, Alan Fried wrote:

I am probably going to buy skis online. I've never
adjusted bindings to fit a boot. Is it easy to do?

Anybody know what the basics are?


I'll save you a bunch of reading. Every reputable post that
follows will boil down to this: Take your new skis and your
boots to a shop and have the job done by experienced
professionals.

Yep. It's just that easy. $15 and ten minutes later it's done.

I do so love the idea that a sixteen year old part timer who
started at the shop last week is an "experienced professional" or
am I just being overly cynical....

You can call him whatever you want, but he has a Winterstieger on
his bench and you don't.

Sorry, what does an automatic Wax, edge and basegrind machine have
to do with fitting and setting bindings? and how do you fit one on a
bench.

Wintersteiger makes several different machines, one of which is
designed to test that bindings release when they should.


As I discovered and mentioned in my next post, But here, in the UK, I
have only ever heard of the big automatic tuning machines being
refered to as "A Winterstieger"

And probably most skiers in the US have never heard the name
"Winterstieger" at all; however, the name isn't that unfamiliar to a lot of
experienced skiers (and certainly quite familiar to those of us who have to
stand in line every year to get our stuff checked, watching the big machine
that says "Wintersteiger" go BANG over and over and over again).

Seriously your theory may work in litigous America,

It's pretty plain that you don't even know what my "theory" is.

I thought your theory as stated above was that a very complicated bit
of kit on a bench made a "sixteen year old part timer who started at
the shop last week" an "Experienced Proffessional"

Well, see, that's what happens when you take a few things that person A
said and a few things that person B said and add some of your own
imaginings and then turn around and attribute the result to person A: you
end up being, shall we say, wrong.

Now, to return to the original question: if you think that taking your skis
to a shop to have the bindings checked is equivalent to throwing fifteen
bucks out in the street, then don't do it. You don't need anyone's
permission. Perhaps it is indeed the case that the personnel in your shop
consists exclusively of "sixteen year old part timer[s] who started at the
shop last week", a notion that you seem quite taken with -- I know it's not
the case where I take my skis, but YMMV. You can believe whatever you
want, and perhaps your local reality reflects your beliefs. Just please
stop badgering everybody to agree with you and blaming "litigious America"
when we don't.

By the way, you seem quite fixated on this notion of a "sixteen year old
part timer who

Mary Malmros wrote:

snip
As I discovered and mentioned in my next post, But here, in the UK, I
have only ever heard of the big automatic tuning machines being
refered to as "A Winterstieger"

And probably most skiers in the US have never heard the name
"Winterstieger" at all; however, the name isn't that unfamiliar to a
lot of experienced skiers (and certainly quite familiar to those of
us who have to stand in line every year to get our stuff checked,
watching the big machine that says "Wintersteiger" go BANG over and
over and over again).


I don't think many skiers over here would have heard of them either

Seriously your theory may work in litigous America,

It's pretty plain that you don't even know what my "theory" is.

I thought your theory as stated above was that a very complicated bit
of kit on a bench made a "sixteen year old part timer who started at
the shop last week" an "Experienced Proffessional"

Well, see, that's what happens when you take a few things that person
A said and a few things that person B said and add some of your own
imaginings and then turn around and attribute the result to person A:
you end up being, shall we say, wrong.

Now, to return to the original question: if you think that taking
your skis to a shop to have the bindings checked is equivalent to
throwing fifteen bucks out in the street, then don't do it. You
don't need anyone's permission. Perhaps it is indeed the case that
the personnel in your shop consists exclusively of "sixteen year old
part timer[s] who started at the shop last week", a notion that you
seem quite taken with -- I know it's not the case where I take my
skis, but YMMV. You can believe whatever you want, and perhaps your
local reality reflects your beliefs. Just please stop badgering
everybody to agree with you and blaming "litigious America" when we
don't.

You don't seem to get the point, it's not that I begrudge the $15 or
whatever, THE SERVICE ISN'T EVEN OFFERED! I have never seen in any ski shop
/ ski workshop the equipment to do such a test. I keep asking wether these
tests are performed anywhere else and never get an answer.


and yes there are lots of under 18s working at ski shops, minimum wage is
lower (in the UK anyway)
and the only reason I go on about the litigous nature of some of American
society is because we seem to be copying it

--

Chris *:-)

MoonMan wrote:

You don't seem to get the point, it's not that I begrudge the $15 or
whatever, THE SERVICE ISN'T EVEN OFFERED! I have never seen in any ski shop
/ ski workshop the equipment to do such a test. I keep asking wether these
tests are performed anywhere else and never get an answer.


You raise an interesting question. I've been trying to find a
definitive answer, but I haven't yet. I'll keep looking.

Meanwhile, the circumstantial evidence would indicate that ski binding
testing machines are not exclusive to North America. Go to
Wintersteiger's website and you can download the brochure for the
binding testing machine in Italian, French, German or English.

The fact that the industry leader is a German company who markets the
product to France & Italy seems to indicate that there must be at least
a few in Europe.

See http://www.wintersteiger.com/E/sp_content_speed.html
and
http://www.wintersteiger.com/D/sp_content_speed.html

Maybe they're not common, but they're out there.

//Walt