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#21
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"PG" wrote in message ... | | "Champ" wrote in message | ... || On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 21:23:40 +0100, "PG" || wrote: | | And the comfort factor in the slowest of the speed disciplines was the | main motivator here, very little to do with judgment about the | precautions to be taken. typo. race disciplines. |
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#22
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"PG" wrote in message ... Back on the subject of helmets, my 12 year old watched a shot of Baxter on Ski Sunday in the slalom, and was disgusted that he wasn't wearing a helmet - ok it wasn't a speed discipline, but they really can travel... Pete Your child needs a dictionary more urgently than a helmet unless he/she was really "sickened and filled with loathing" in which case he/she urgently needs a psychiatrist. Unlike anyone else I don't claim any knowledge about the safety of helmets but I would rather read sensible discussion than irrelevant ranting. IMHO what is needed is not helmets but fines for skiing recklessly and endangering others. |
#23
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"Nick Hounsome" wrote in message k... | | "PG" wrote in message | ... | | Back on the subject of helmets, my 12 year old watched a shot of Baxter | on Ski Sunday in the slalom, and was disgusted that he wasn't wearing a | helmet - ok it wasn't a speed discipline, but they really can travel... | | Pete | | Your child needs a dictionary more urgently than a helmet unless he/she was | really "sickened and filled with loathing" in which case he/she urgently | needs a psychiatrist. | | Unlike anyone else I don't claim any knowledge about the safety of helmets | but I would rather read sensible discussion than irrelevant ranting. | | IMHO what is needed is not helmets but fines for skiing recklessly and | endangering others. Shouldn't rise to this but as a qualified, professional linguist, I suggest you get a more comprehensive dictionary. Alternative meanings (OED) include "profound dissatisfaction", "strong indignation", to name but two. Evidence, whether anecdotal or not, is part and parcel of debate. Ad hominem comments like your own are the reason why "sensible discussion" is rare on unmoderated usenet. Look up sophistry. As a race club director based in the Alps I speak with some knowledge of the safety issues involved. IMHO both helmets and fines are needed. Pete |
#24
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On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 20:33:28 +0000, Alun Jenkins
wrote: Where did you see this information? I've had an annual carte neige for years, and that's the first I've head of such a clause. Pete www.skiclublesarcs.com Hi Pete all around the cham area are blue cn posters (with the dog !) The wording reads "without your helment you are not insured" Mind you my poor french translation could be to blame. Possibly. Bear in mind that many terms for insurance also mean protection. But you could be right, for all I know. Our ESF instructor also said she had had to cancel some coures as the kids couldnt get helmets as the hire place had run out. Ski scholls often have their own rules about this and will insist on kids having lids, but this is not indicative of either insurance or legal requirements. One way or the other loath em or love em youre going to need lids for the kids .. Poor kids. -- Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom) Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club. |
#25
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On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 06:14:37 +0100, "PG"
wrote: "Champ" wrote in message .. . | On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 21:23:40 +0100, "PG" | wrote: | | Back on the subject of helmets, my 12 year old watched a shot of Baxter | on Ski Sunday in the slalom, and was disgusted that he wasn't wearing a | helmet - ok it wasn't a speed discipline, but they really can travel... | | She was disgusted? That a grown mad could make his own judgement on | what precautions to take for his own life? See, this is what happens | when we insist that kids wear helmets.... She was disgusted with what she saw as the example she felt was being set, actually. A pretty mature position to hold for a youngster, certainly beats jumping to conclusions about the motives/thinking of others as you've just done! Shows a certain level of brainwashing, i'd say, rather than maturity. A mature mind would allow that others have the right to think for themselves, rather than just doing what may be perceived to be politically correct, which is very much what 'setting an example' is about. Ski racers have other priorities, far more important to them, than what sort of an example they set to 12-y-o spectators. I hope you explained this to her, in order to broaden your mature mind even further, and hopefully help her be able to make decisions for herself later in life. And the comfort factor in the slowest of the [race] disciplines was the main motivator here, very little to do with judgment about the precautions to be taken. I'm sure that any comfort-based decision would be weighed up against any safety concerns. -- Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom) Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club. |
#26
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On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 00:46:41 -0000, "James Hart"
wrote: David Mahon wrote: In article , James Hart writes David Mahon wrote: In article , John Ricketts writes Nanny-ism is just going too far. As of January, I can't even change my own 3-pin plugs at home now! Can't you? Still see them on sale (together with all the kit you need to rewire your house if desired). Not sure what country they live in but the UK has just had Part P kick into action and the amount of bull**** that's being spread about it is unbeleivable. Certain electrical jobs around the home are now subject to restrictions but even the relevant authorities don't seem to know what's supposed to happen and how they're supposed to police them. Rewiring a plug is still allowed, replacing a socket is still allowed but other stuff like adding an extra socket must be done by a certified person (for that read "has paid their fees to a certifying body") or under a Building Control Notice (and with the requires fees being paid). Then someone ought to tell the DIY stores (this is link from B&Q) http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/templa...ontent=/bq_adv ice/common/howtos/fitxtrasockets/ Naughty website, just shows the confusion that's about at the moment though. It's mainly you that's confused. As I understand it (and as a non-UK resident) the requirement is that any such work is done to the certified standards. Nothing's saying the installer must actually be certified, so there's no reason why a householder can't do any amount of re-wiring he/she desires, as long as it meets said standards. -- Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom) Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club. |
#27
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"Ace" wrote in message news | On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 06:14:37 +0100, "PG" | wrote: | | | She was disgusted with what she saw as the example she felt was being | set, actually. A pretty mature position to hold for a youngster, | certainly beats jumping to conclusions about the motives/thinking of | others as you've just done! | | Shows a certain level of brainwashing, i'd say, rather than maturity. | A mature mind would allow that others have the right to think for | themselves, rather than just doing what may be perceived to be | politically correct, which is very much what 'setting an example' is | about. Ski racers have other priorities, far more important to them, | than what sort of an example they set to 12-y-o spectators. To 12 year old members of the British national ski racing team as it happens, who are advised and given talks by national trainers on just this topic. | I hope you explained this to her, in order to broaden your mature mind | even further, and hopefully help her be able to make decisions for | herself later in life. Fortunately I don't need to explain to her the immaturity of making patronising assumptions about other people before she meets them, Ace ;-) | | And the comfort factor in the slowest of the [race] disciplines was the | main motivator here, very little to do with judgment about the | precautions to be taken. | | I'm sure that any comfort-based decision would be weighed up against | any safety concerns. Doesn't seem to handicap the majority of elite slalom racers that do wear a helmet while they carry on winning World Cup events. Pete |
#28
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On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 06:17:40 +0100, "PG"
wrote: "Champ" wrote in message .. . | Boy this stuff makes me mad! | | One of the most important things about skiing/snowboarding is being | out in such a fantastic environment, and experiencing it to the full. | Part of this is being aware of the dangers of the environment, too. | | Now, the last thing I want to do is put some glassfibre between me and | that experience. And, as I know very well from riding and racing | motorcycles, putting on a helmet will cause some risk-compensation | behaviour. Far better to teach the kids that skiing is a potentially | dangerous activity, and act accordingly. | | And - I really can't understand how generations of kids used to cycle | to school without a helmet (me included), but now "we all know it is | folly to let your child ride a bike without a helmet". I know no such | thing. And, as pointed out elsewhere, and regularly discussed on ukrc, the advantages are far from proven. Rip out all the safety belts and let's teach everyone to drive more carefully, shall we? LOL. Don't be daft. It's all about perspective - there's no real debate about seatbelts - they decrease injury count and severity with practically no downside. Champs' point[1], and one with which I wholly concur, is that partaking of risky sports activities is a choice, and one where we should all make positive efforts to understand the inherent dangers therein. He's not suggesting that you should _not_ wear a helmet, or that your children shouldn't, just that the blind adherence to the 'helmets must be worn' school of thought detracts from an individual's right to decide for themselves. Like Champ, I also ride fast motorcycles (although I don't race them) and would normally wear full armoured leathers (or equivalent), gloves and the best helmet I can find. But you know, there are times when riding in shorts and flip-flops, without a helmet, is perfectly appropriate. We've both done it, I know, and both accept that when doing so we'll ride much more slowly and carefully[2], as the result of a spill would be much more serious. That's what risk-compensation is about. One last point of note: I looked at skiing helmets earlier this season, and was astonished to discover that, like cycling helmets, they're all really flimsy things, offering a degree of protection only slightly greater than that of a baseball cap. If I'm ever going to wear one, I want one that's actually going to be able to take some impact, as it's only really the extreme situations I'd be trying to protect against. If you look at (horse-)riding helmets, by contrast, you'll find their construction much more robust. Why should horse-riders, who only travel at 20-odd mph and can fall from about two metres up, have such better protection, I wonder? [1] Well, mine actually, but I'm fairly sure it aligns with his thinking on this subject. [2] Except when ****ed, of course, but that's another matter altogether -- Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom) Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club. |
#29
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James Hart wrote:
David Mahon wrote: In article , John Ricketts writes Nanny-ism is just going too far. As of January, I can't even change my own 3-pin plugs at home now! Can't you? Still see them on sale (together with all the kit you need to rewire your house if desired). Not sure what country they live in but the UK has just had Part P kick into action and the amount of bull**** that's being spread about it is unbeleivable. Certain electrical jobs around the home are now subject to restrictions but even the relevant authorities don't seem to know what's supposed to happen and how they're supposed to police them. Rewiring a plug is still allowed, replacing a socket is still allowed but other stuff like adding an extra socket must be done by a certified person (for that read "has paid their fees to a certifying body") or under a Building Control Notice (and with the requires fees being paid). So as long as i say i rewired my house in December 2004 i will be ok. Spose all the wire colours all change aswell just to prove dates/times etc!?? now wheres the screwfix catalogue........... |
#30
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On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 08:03:48 GMT, "Nick Hounsome"
wrote: snip nicely-reasoned argument The key point is that the only group for whom NOT wearing a helmet has an upside are the skiers themselves. Quite so. Of course, there are those that refuse to see this, but it's true nonetheless. I honestly believe that off piste skiing will be banned in my lifetime since the statistics relating to fatalities on and off piste are much more clear cut than any about helmets. Mebbe, but I'm not so pessimistic. We may see more restrictions, like they have in a couple of the 'extreme' areas of Kicking Horse (BC, Canada) where they'll only let you ski if you're properly equipped with transceiver, shovel, probe etc. Interestingly, even there they don't insist on helmets. I think this will be the way things will go over the next few years. -- Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom) Ski Club of Great Britain - http://www.skiclub.co.uk All opinions expressed are personal and in no way represent those of the Ski Club. |
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