Breckenridge death

[William]

Just got back from a week in Summit County (Breckenridge) and wanted to
relate this story since it really shook me up. . .

It was last Friday (12/31/2004) at 9AM in the morning. We had just
gotten on the Quicksilver 6 chair for our first run of the day when I
saw a sled being pulled down the last pitch of the mountain by a
snowmobile. This was at the very bottom where the runs are all flat.
It looked like they were in a hurry. I could see that there were about
5 patrollers skiing around the sled and snowmobile.

As they approached, I could see a patrol guy riding on the sled with
the injured man. He was doing CPR. Chest compressions, but no rescue
breathing. Our chair passed over the whole group and I looked straight
down to see a guy with a black helmet on, face completely covered with
blood. It appeared to me that there was an endotracheal tube in place,
also covered with blood. I saw no ambu bag being used. The patrol guy
was still riding the sled and doing chest compressions.

Then they were past us and I could see no more. I'm thinking to myself
- how long must it have taken for the patrols to get <to> this guy? If
he was bad-off enough to need CPR, then his chances of survival seemed
scant. The time it would take to find this guy, get him down the
mountain to the medical center, then fly him to the nearest trauma
center is enormous. Might as well be a year for this guy since he is
already in cardiopulmonary arrest.

The lady next to me on the chair said "oooo no. That guy might die."
I replied that it unfortunately appeared he had already expired.

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~53~2629150,00.html
Not good.

[Jim Strohm]

William wrote:

> Just got back from a week in Summit County (Breckenridge) and wanted to
> relate this story since it really shook me up. . .

The referenced news article mentioned that the deceased in three of the
latest four skiing deaths were snowboarders.

Probably just a statistical anomaly.

[VtSkier]

William wrote:
> Just got back from a week in Summit County (Breckenridge) and wanted to
> relate this story since it really shook me up. . .

http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050104/NEWS/501040405/1002

KILLINGTON — A 27-year-old Massachusetts man tumbled to his death Sunday
after losing control on one of Killington Ski Resort's most challenging
trails.

Vermont State Police said Andrew Begley of Cambridge, Mass. apparently
lost control while skiing on the Double Dipper trail, which is rated a
"double black diamond" run.

"Our initial interviews indicate that the victim was a fairly
experienced skier," said Lt. David Covell of the State Police. "From
witness accounts, he was skiing on one of the more advanced trails and
simply lost control."

Covell said Begley slid "a significant distance," going off the Double
Dipper trail through a roped-off area where Killington snow guns were
stored and into the Big Dipper trail before a tree stopped his slide.

"It looks possible that he may have collided with some equipment in that
initial closed area he entered," Covell said.

Brian Connolly of Scituate, Mass., a frequent Killington skier, said he
and several friends saw the end of Begley's slide, watching him rolling
down the Big Dipper trail, apparently unconscious.

"We saw him tumbling out of control down the trail," Connolly said. "We
saw him on the last several hundred yards. He was going at a very fast
pace and obviously couldn't stop."

Connolly said that while several from his group summoned the ski patrol,
he and a companion hiked up the mountain. They found Begley unconscious
and seriously injured, with bruises visible on his head and on one leg
where his ski pants had been ripped off.

Connolly said his friends later found Begley's skis lodged, facing
downhill, in the hoses for Killington's snow guns.

"We had skied that trail several times that morning and as the day went
on it started to get polished," he said. "When we found his pass, a
Mount Snow pass, we speculated that maybe he didn't know the
(Killington) trail. There was a section there that was extremely icy so
we could see how easily someone could get into trouble."He said it
seemed likely Begley had fallen near the top of the mountain and slid,
tumbling almost all the way to the bottom of that section of trails.

Covell said that because the accident happened prior to 10:30 a.m.
Sunday, the icy weather that blanketed the mountain that evening did not
play a role.

"The conditions on that trail that day were frozen granular and hard
packed," Covell said. "But there's no way to determine at this point if
that was a factor."

Begley, who was pronounced dead on arrival at the Rutland Regional
Medical Center, likely died due to blunt trauma, Covell said. He would
not speculate about specific injuries, pending an autopsy.

"It appeared like he suffered a series of injuries resulting from the
fall and the acts that followed," he said. "We're waiting for the
autopsy results to determine the exact cause of death."

Covell said Begley seemed to have traveled to Vermont alone and that his
next of kin had been contacted.

Tom Horrocks, a spokesman for the resort, said Begley's death was a
"very unfortunate accident."

He said the Double Dipper trail had been machine-groomed the previous
night and was rated a black diamond based on its steepness.

"It's mostly because of the pitch of it," he said. "We groom the trail
to provide a smooth, even skiing surface."

Horrocks said the resort hasn't seen any more accidents on the Double
Dipper than on any other trail.

"It was an open ski trail like every trail on the mountain. We don't see
more accidents on any one of them," he said. "Skiing is an inherently
dangerous sport and we ask everyone who comes to Killington and Pico to
know the responsibility code for safe skiing."

Horrocks added that the resort incorporates safety messages in all of
its trail maps and many of its signs and joins with resorts around the
country to promote safe skiing in Ski Safe Week, the third week of January.

Neither Covell nor Horrocks could say for certain when the mountain last
saw a fatal accident, but Covell said such accidents are "not very common."

My recollection of the days were that Fri & Sat
were warm and that Sunday was colder. Trail could
have been icy.

Note that he slid off DD through a closed off area
under the lift onto Big Dipper. Big Dipper is Killington's
only true glade trail. Trees spaced wide apart.

It would have been at quite an angle to the fall line
for the trajectory described to have been accomplished.

DD, while steep, has a pretty good fall line, straight
down the hill, unlike, say, Cascade, which, if you fall
you will go into the woods if the fence doesn't stop you.

A Middletown Springs, Vt., skier was killed in February 2003 after he
skied into a rope stretched across a trail on Bear Mountain at
Killington. Police said at the time that the man tried to duck under the
3-foot-high rope, but instead it caught him by his neck.

I was at this one. My skiing buddy who is an attorney
took witness statements.

Covell said the investigation into Begley's death was "nearly complete."
He added that a few more follow-up interviews might be needed after
police receive the autopsy.

posted by VtSkier

[Mary Malmros]

This will probably get me yelled at for being overly critical, but...I
think I would have left some of those details out of your post, on the
off-chance that someone who knew the guy might find and read it (like,
maybe, his mom). Something to think about for next time...

--
Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield, other days you're the bug.

[VtSkier]

Mary Malmros wrote:
> This will probably get me yelled at for being overly critical, but...I
> think I would have left some of those details out of your post, on the
> off-chance that someone who knew the guy might find and read it (like,
> maybe, his mom). Something to think about for next time...
>
Yeah, you're a little over critical, BUT you're right. The details
written were the kind of thing that goes into an eye-witness report for
the area's risk management file.

VtSkier

[root]

"William" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Just got back from a week in Summit County (Breckenridge) and wanted to
> relate this story since it really shook me up. . .
>
> It was last Friday (12/31/2004) at 9AM in the morning. We had just
> gotten on the Quicksilver 6 chair for our first run of the day when I



Seriously I was at Breck a few days after thanksgiving this year when a
snowboarder from above me hit me from behind and knocked me down. I told him
to slow down "D*CK" (which I probally shouldn't have said). He then proceded
to try to fight me which I let him just stay below me as I figured he wasn't
going to take off his board and walk up to me.. (Like fighting this jerk is
going to do anything, and he was bigger than me).

I can't believe people act like this.Do we need ski police now?

[Walt]

Jim Strohm wrote:
> William wrote:

> The referenced news article mentioned that the deceased in three of the
> latest four skiing deaths were snowboarders.
>
> Probably just a statistical anomaly.

Well, probability can seem pretty anomalous at times. In this case,
assuming that there are equal numbers of skiers and boarders, if you
just pick four people at random off the slopes, 50% of the time it'll be
3 of one kind and one of the other. You are actually more likely to get
3 and 1 than to get 2 and 2 (37.5%)

So, I wouldn't draw too many conclusions from a 3-1 split.

--
//-Walt
//
// There is no Volkl Conspiracy

[Dick Gozinya]

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 15:51:37 GMT, "root" >
wrote:

>
>
>"William" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> Just got back from a week in Summit County (Breckenridge) and wanted to
>> relate this story since it really shook me up. . .
>>
>> It was last Friday (12/31/2004) at 9AM in the morning. We had just
>> gotten on the Quicksilver 6 chair for our first run of the day when I
>
>
>
>Seriously I was at Breck a few days after thanksgiving this year when a
>snowboarder from above me hit me from behind and knocked me down. I told him
>to slow down "D*CK" (which I probally shouldn't have said). He then proceded
>to try to fight me which I let him just stay below me as I figured he wasn't
>going to take off his board and walk up to me.. (Like fighting this jerk is
>going to do anything, and he was bigger than me).
>
>I can't believe people act like this.Do we need ski police now?
>
Report him. Behavior like that is unacceptable. How would
you have felt if an hour later he nailed a child and killed
them?




"I think that gay marriage should be between a man and a woman." -Arnold Schwarzenegger, during the California recall campaign

[Walt]

VtSkier wrote:
> Mary Malmros wrote:
>
>> This will probably get me yelled at for being overly critical, but...I
>> think I would have left some of those details out of your post, on the
>> off-chance that someone who knew the guy might find and read it (like,
>> maybe, his mom). Something to think about for next time...
>>
> Yeah, you're a little over critical, BUT you're right. The details
> written were the kind of thing that goes into an eye-witness report for
> the area's risk management file.

Where it disappears into a black hole never to be seen again. I
strongly disagree with this approach.

Our sport is dangerous. Ski areas try to hide or minimize the danger
because it may adversely affect their bottom line. Better to have it
out in the open.


--
//-Walt
//
// There is no Volkl Conspiracy

[Let Mikey Ski It!]

William wrote:
> ...I'm thinking to myself
> - how long must it have taken for the patrols to get <to> this guy? ...

I bet it was within just minutes (<10?) of the accident. The paper said
the patrol got the call at 8:40; which is only about 10 minutes after
the lifts opened so that call had to be very soon after it happened.
And, if the caller expressed severity, I bet they flew down and were
there within 3-5 minutes.

I am just guessing based on knowing how fast they could get down that
run with the toboggans they have lined up outside their shack.

Mike...

--
See my ski photography at: http://PowderDay.us
Carpe powder-diem

[Jon C]

Walt wrote:
> VtSkier wrote:
>
>> Mary Malmros wrote:
>>
>>> This will probably get me yelled at for being overly critical,
>>> but...I think I would have left some of those details out of your
>>> post, on the off-chance that someone who knew the guy might find and
>>> read it (like, maybe, his mom). Something to think about for next
>>> time...
>>>
>> Yeah, you're a little over critical, BUT you're right. The details
>> written were the kind of thing that goes into an eye-witness report
>> for the area's risk management file.
>
>
> Where it disappears into a black hole never to be seen again. I
> strongly disagree with this approach.
>
> Our sport is dangerous. Ski areas try to hide or minimize the danger
> because it may adversely affect their bottom line. Better to have it
> out in the open.
>
>

I totally agree with you. Nothing wrong with what you posted. Accident
descriptions are something else, but this is viewing a patient being
actively worked on and evacuated.

[Dick Gozinya]

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 16:38:14 GMT, Jon C >
wrote:

>Walt wrote:
>> VtSkier wrote:
>>
>>> Mary Malmros wrote:
>>>
>>>> This will probably get me yelled at for being overly critical,
>>>> but...I think I would have left some of those details out of your
>>>> post, on the off-chance that someone who knew the guy might find and
>>>> read it (like, maybe, his mom). Something to think about for next
>>>> time...
>>>>
>>> Yeah, you're a little over critical, BUT you're right. The details
>>> written were the kind of thing that goes into an eye-witness report
>>> for the area's risk management file.
>>
>>
>> Where it disappears into a black hole never to be seen again. I
>> strongly disagree with this approach.
>>
>> Our sport is dangerous. Ski areas try to hide or minimize the danger
>> because it may adversely affect their bottom line. Better to have it
>> out in the open.
>>
>>
>
>I totally agree with you. Nothing wrong with what you posted. Accident
>descriptions are something else, but this is viewing a patient being
>actively worked on and evacuated.
I saw something similar on Sunday. After finishing my weekly
hockey game, we saw the emerge team wheeling a heart attack
victim off the other pad.




"I think that gay marriage should be between a man and a woman." -Arnold Schwarzenegger, during the California recall campaign

[Norm]

"Walt" > wrote in message news:WdzCd.754

>> written were the kind of thing that goes into an eye-witness report for
>> the area's risk management file.
>
> Where it disappears into a black hole never to be seen again. I strongly
> disagree with this approach.

Not necesarily. A death would normally result in some sort of investigation
by some outside organization or other. These details would be made
available. If nothing else, I think the family of the patient would insist
on this. At the very least some form of debriefing would take place among
the emerg care workers involved.
IME details of this sort of thing have not been hard to come by. While I
disagree with any type of active concealing of information, should the
resort be making everything as public as possible? Reading the news story on
this one I got a fairly clear picture of what happened. What more should
have been shared?


>
> Our sport is dangerous. Ski areas try to hide or minimize the danger
> because it may adversely affect their bottom line. Better to have it out
> in the open.
>

To what end? Discouraging people from trying the sport? Its a pretty rare
skier who doesn't, on some level, understand there is a risk involved. I
think that risk is quite well managed by most resorts I ski. Whether the
motivation is for the protection of their guests or to cover their own
backside is irrelevent, it still results in a safer experience for
everybody.

[lal_truckee]

Mary Malmros wrote:
> This will probably get me yelled at for being overly critical, but...I
> think I would have left some of those details out of your post, on the
> off-chance that someone who knew the guy might find and read it (like,
> maybe, his mom). Something to think about for next time...

Maybe, maybe not -
Most of what was in the report indicates that the patrol was doing
everything possible for the fellow. A high level of response IMO. Might
be comforting to relations?

Some comments on the report - some mention was made of response
time/evac time. IMObservation generally a patrol response arrives at a
ski accident much faster than an emergency vehicle arrives at a road
accident; the first aid and life support capabilities of a well trained
patrol are generally very high (minus truck carried equipment, of
course); and sled evac is very quick - just a few minutes to first aid
where de-fib and other equipment is available. All in all, I suspect for
most accidents and heart/stroke type problems you'd get a better
response time at a major ski mountain (if you're on-piste) than in the
general world. Of course hitting a tree is sort of like walking out into
traffic without looking - you're likely coming out second best.

[VtSkier]

Norm wrote:
> "Walt" > wrote in message news:WdzCd.754
>
>
>>>written were the kind of thing that goes into an eye-witness report for
>>>the area's risk management file.
>>
>>Where it disappears into a black hole never to be seen again. I strongly
>>disagree with this approach.
>
>
> Not necesarily. A death would normally result in some sort of investigation
> by some outside organization or other. These details would be made
> available. If nothing else, I think the family of the patient would insist
> on this. At the very least some form of debriefing would take place among
> the emerg care workers involved.
> IME details of this sort of thing have not been hard to come by. While I
> disagree with any type of active concealing of information, should the
> resort be making everything as public as possible? Reading the news story on
> this one I got a fairly clear picture of what happened. What more should
> have been shared?
>
>
>
>>Our sport is dangerous. Ski areas try to hide or minimize the danger
>>because it may adversely affect their bottom line. Better to have it out
>>in the open.
>>
>
>
> To what end? Discouraging people from trying the sport? Its a pretty rare
> skier who doesn't, on some level, understand there is a risk involved. I
> think that risk is quite well managed by most resorts I ski. Whether the
> motivation is for the protection of their guests or to cover their own
> backside is irrelevent, it still results in a safer experience for
> everybody.
>
>
I agree with this. All of the interviews we did and all that the risk
managers collected was shared with the state police who were the
investigators of the Killington accident two years ago.

[Walt]

Paul Christofanelli wrote:
> Walt > wrote:

> Yep. Not enough data. But the probability that exactly 3 snowboarders
> and 1 skier are hurt assuming a random pick is 25%.

yep.

> The probability
> that more snowboarders than skiers would be hurt in that group of 4
> assuming 'random' accidents is 31.25%.

yep.


> What does all this mean ... not really anything.

yep. But we can assert this at the 95% confidence level.

> Anecdotally, it does seem that more snowboarders
> are hurt in general but it could have something to do with who's mostly
> in the 'trauma parks'.

So far this season Colorado has seen four deaths on the slopes. Two
were boarders who hit trees, one was a boarder who had a seizure, and
the fourth was a ski racer who collided with a snowmobile.
(http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~97~2608415,00.html)

--
//-Walt
//
// There is no Volkl Conspiracy

[Walt]

Norm wrote:
> "Walt" > wrote in message news:WdzCd.754
>
>
> A death would normally result in some sort of investigation
> by some outside organization or other. These details would be made
> available. If nothing else, I think the family of the patient would insist
> on this. At the very least some form of debriefing would take place among
> the emerg care workers involved.
> IME details of this sort of thing have not been hard to come by.

Details about a specific fatal accident are usually in the paper.

Comprehensive statistics about injuries are not available. At least I
can't find anything. Maybe you could tell me, say, the number of
tib-fib fractures in the 2003-2004 season in the US? This data is
collected by each individual resort, but the data is kept private (secret).

> While I
> disagree with any type of active concealing of information, should the
> resort be making everything as public as possible?

Yes. Within the bounds of individual privacy. Why the sececry? Are
they drafting an energy policy?



>>Our sport is dangerous. Ski areas try to hide or minimize the danger
>>because it may adversely affect their bottom line. Better to have it out
>>in the open.
>
> To what end? Discouraging people from trying the sport?

Providing information so that people can make an informed decision. Is
that too much to ask?


> Its a pretty rare
> skier who doesn't, on some level, understand there is a risk involved.

And that assessment of risk is probably erroneous. Is it more or less
dangerous than driving on the highway? I doubt most people know the answer.

> I think that risk is quite well managed by most resorts I ski.

I have no idea what this sentence means.


--
//-Walt
//
// There is no Volkl Conspiracy

[Walt]

Walt wrote:

> So far this season Colorado has seen four deaths on the slopes. Two
> were boarders who hit trees, one was a boarder who had a seizure, and
> the fourth was a ski racer who collided with a snowmobile.

Um, make that six.
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E53%257E2633317,00.html

My condolences to the families and friends left behind.

--
//-Walt
//
// There is no Volkl Conspiracy

[The Real Bev]

Mary Malmros wrote:
>
> This will probably get me yelled at for being overly critical, but...I
> think I would have left some of those details out of your post, on the
> off-chance that someone who knew the guy might find and read it (like,
> maybe, his mom). Something to think about for next time...

I'm a mom. I think I would seek out every scrap of information on my
dead kid that I could find. Not yelling, I just think you're wrong.

--
Cheers,
Bev
================================================== ====
I am grateful that I am not as judgmental as all those
censorious, self-righteous people around me.

[bdubya]

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 10:36:16 -0500, VtSkier >
wrote:

>
>http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050104/NEWS/501040405/1002
>

As long as we're on the tragedy parade:
http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews/pm2130_20050104.htm
Mt. Holly isn't big, but it doesn't take much vert to develop lethal
velocity... Tragic.

bw

[Mary Malmros]

The Real Bev wrote:
> Mary Malmros wrote:
>
>>This will probably get me yelled at for being overly critical, but...I
>>think I would have left some of those details out of your post, on the
>>off-chance that someone who knew the guy might find and read it (like,
>>maybe, his mom). Something to think about for next time...
>
>
> I'm a mom. I think I would seek out every scrap of information on my
> dead kid that I could find. Not yelling, I just think you're wrong.

I could be, but then again, I've had the opposite experience, after my
best friend drowned on a whitewater river. I had a photograph of the
site (taken before he had died) which I offered to show his mom. I'm
sure that there are those who would have wanted to see it (which was why
I made the offer), but she emphatically declined.

--
Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield, other days you're the bug.

[Christopher Biow]

Walt > wrote:

>...Our sport is dangerous. Ski areas try to hide or minimize the danger
>because it may adversely affect their bottom line. Better to have it
>out in the open.

The last 50 years of aviation history have pretty clearly shown that
widespread communication of accident details helps those exposed to the
dangers learn how to minimize them. Skiing might learn from the climbing
community: _Accidents in North American Mountaineering_ is an enormously
useful publication.

It is good to see that ski resorts at least sometimes put their accident
files to good use, though.
<http://www.bcma.org/public/bc_medical_journal/BCMJ/october_1988/SkiInjuriesWhistler.asp>

[Dave M]

Christopher Biow wrote:

>Walt > wrote:
>
>
>
>>...Our sport is dangerous. Ski areas try to hide or minimize the danger
>>because it may adversely affect their bottom line. Better to have it
>>out in the open.
>>
>>
>
>The last 50 years of aviation history have pretty clearly shown that
>widespread communication of accident details helps those exposed to the
>dangers learn how to minimize them. Skiing might learn from the climbing
>community: _Accidents in North American Mountaineering_ is an enormously
>useful publication.
>
>It is good to see that ski resorts at least sometimes put their accident
>files to good use, though.
><http://www.bcma.org/public/bc_medical_journal/BCMJ/october_1988/SkiInjuriesWhistler.asp>
>
>
Damnable Canadians and their freewheeling openness.

Dave M.

[rosco]

Mary Malmros wrote:

> The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> Mary Malmros wrote:
>>
>>> This will probably get me yelled at for being overly critical, but...I
>>> think I would have left some of those details out of your post, on the
>>> off-chance that someone who knew the guy might find and read it (like,
>>> maybe, his mom). Something to think about for next time...
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm a mom. I think I would seek out every scrap of information on my
>> dead kid that I could find. Not yelling, I just think you're wrong.
>
>
> I could be, but then again, I've had the opposite experience, after my
> best friend drowned on a whitewater river. I had a photograph of the
> site (taken before he had died) which I offered to show his mom. I'm
> sure that there are those who would have wanted to see it (which was why
> I made the offer), but she emphatically declined.

Ouch... it wouldn't surprise me if she thought better of it sometime
later. I think you were right to offer the picture.

[Norm]

"Walt" > wrote in message news:ImCCd.759

>> the emerg care workers involved.
>> IME details of this sort of thing have not been hard to come by.
>
> Details about a specific fatal accident are usually in the paper.
>
> Comprehensive statistics about injuries are not available. At least I
> can't find anything. Maybe you could tell me, say, the number of tib-fib
> fractures in the 2003-2004 season in the US? This data is collected by
> each individual resort, but the data is kept private (secret).

The data is private in the sense that they have no specific requirement to
pass it on or make it public. Accident reports are however forwarded, in my
part of the world, to Canada West Ski Areas Association. I'm sure there are
similar organizations everywhere. Without a great deal of difficulty, I
found a few articles referring to accident rates and comparitive statistics.

These are the first 2 which came up in a search of "Injury rates" + Skiing.

http://www.execulink.com/~frind/Knee-Articles/Hunter-AJSM-May99.htm
http://www.wms.org/education/Skiing%20and%20Snowboard%20Injuries%202000.htm

Interestingly enough, since we are talking about comparitive rates, the
third article which resulted from that same search was:

http://www.roberts.ezpublishing.com/wski/safety.htm

And of course, fourth was:

http://www.monmouth.com/~dschutz/accident.htm

Also see the Whistler report mentioned elsewhere in this thread,
unfortunately, 16 years out of date, but the numbers look like they could
still be quite plausible today



>> While I disagree with any type of active concealing of information,
>> should the resort be making everything as public as possible?
>
> Yes. Within the bounds of individual privacy. Why the sececry? Are they
> drafting an energy policy?
>
>
>>>Our sport is dangerous. Ski areas try to hide or minimize the danger
>>>because it may adversely affect their bottom line. Better to have it out
>>>in the open.
>>
>> To what end? Discouraging people from trying the sport?
>
> Providing information so that people can make an informed decision. Is
> that too much to ask?
>

I had no idea of the accident rate before I took up driving. Maybe I should
have researched it more thoroughly, but at the time, it just seemed like the
thing to do. We require tobacco co and liquor vendors to attach warnings,
we are considering doing it with junk food. Maybe we should be doing the
same for skiing? Is this really the slippery slope you would like us to
continue down?



>
>> Its a pretty rare skier who doesn't, on some level, understand there is a
>> risk involved.
>
> And that assessment of risk is probably erroneous. Is it more or less
> dangerous than driving on the highway? I doubt most people know the
> answer.

Alright then. Some of the statistics found tend to indicate an injury rate
somewhere between 1 and 10 per 1000 skier days. How bout you find a
statistic or 2 regarding driving days. Or hours, since most people ski for
about 6 hours or less a day. I'm betting, without any knowledge on the
subject whatsoever, that driving is more dangerous, but I'm willing to be
shown different.

>
>> I think that risk is quite well managed by most resorts I ski.
>
> I have no idea what this sentence means.
>

Which part didn't you understand? I think ski resorts, for the most part,
are doing everything that could be reasonably expected of them in regards to
risk management.

>
> --
> //-Walt
> //
> // There is no Volkl Conspiracy

[Walt]

Christopher Biow wrote:
> Walt > wrote:
>
>>...Our sport is dangerous. Ski areas try to hide or minimize the danger
>>because it may adversely affect their bottom line. Better to have it
>>out in the open.

> It is good to see that ski resorts at least sometimes put their accident
> files to good use, though.
> <http://www.bcma.org/public/bc_medical_journal/BCMJ/october_1988/SkiInjuriesWhistler.asp>

A good article. This is *exactly* the kind of data that I think should
be more widely available.

Unfortunately, the data is almost 20 years old (from the 1987-88
season), predating shaped skis, snowboards, terrain parks, and the
recent upsurge in tree skiing. I think we could use some more recent
numbers.

--
//-Walt
//
// There is no Volkl Conspiracy

[Siegfried]

Suzieflame wrote:

> On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 10:39:12 -0500, Mary Malmros
> > wrote:
>
> >This will probably get me yelled at for being overly critical, but...I
> >think I would have left some of those details out of your post, on the
> >off-chance that someone who knew the guy might find and read it (like,
> >maybe, his mom).
>
> Do you think CNN thinks about that when showing pictures of dying
> people in hospitals in Indonesia? Something to think about for next
> time you post such pious pile of bull****.

A Google Groups search for "Malbot" will tell you everything you need to
know:

http://tinyurl.com/567m9

Siegfried

[miles]

Suzieflame wrote:

> Do you think CNN thinks about that when showing pictures of dying
> people in hospitals in Indonesia? Something to think about for next
> time you post such pious pile of bull****.

Not sure the choice in language helps but I agree with you. In todays
liberal PC world society doesn't want to hurt anyones feelings. What
they often fail to realize is the larger longer term effect of being
'nice'. People need to realize the inherit dangers of skiing and
snowboarding. It amazes me that so many are willing to risk it all with
a highspeed run through the powder of tightly packed trees. I do not
know the specifics of this particular accident nor whether wrecklessness
was even a part. However, it is important for those on the slopes as
well as area owners and operators to understand the dangers involved.
With knowledge comes greater enjoyment and improvement of our sport.