Mounting alpine bindings

[Terry Hill]

If anybody could help me out with this, I would appreciate it. I have an old
pair of downhill skis that I picked up recently that seemed pretty good, and
were the right size for me, but they had old bindings on them. I was thinking
that they would make a great second pair of skis for spring skiing or for use
on days when conditions are less than optimal. Anyway, I bought a pair of
Solomon 637 bindings on eBay, and I want to install them myself, but since I
have never done it before, I need a few tips. My plan is to put them on myself
and then take the skis in for a tune-up and binding adjustment. I understand
that you have to find the ski balance point with a straightedge, and I do have
the right mounting screws, as they came with the bindings, and I know that you
have to fill the screw holes with epoxy glue. What I don't know is where
exactly do I position the bindings for mounting? How do I know how far apart
to put the bindings? Do I just hold the bindings up against the boot, or what?
And do I balance the ski with the boot in place? Any tips would be greatly
appreciated
Thanks

[mark]

"Terry Hill" wrote ...
> If anybody could help me out with this, I would appreciate it. I have an
old
> pair of downhill skis that I picked up recently that seemed pretty good,
and
> were the right size for me, but they had old bindings on them. I was
thinking
> that they would make a great second pair of skis for spring skiing or for
use
> on days when conditions are less than optimal. Anyway, I bought a pair of
> Solomon 637 bindings on eBay, and I want to install them myself, but since
I
> have never done it before, I need a few tips. My plan is to put them on
myself
> and then take the skis in for a tune-up and binding adjustment. I
understand
> that you have to find the ski balance point with a straightedge, and I do
have
> the right mounting screws, as they came with the bindings, and I know that
you
> have to fill the screw holes with epoxy glue. What I don't know is where
> exactly do I position the bindings for mounting? How do I know how far
apart
> to put the bindings? Do I just hold the bindings up against the boot, or
what?
> And do I balance the ski with the boot in place? Any tips would be greatly
> appreciated
> Thanks

Finding the balance point is something that is done for Nordic (cross
country) skis, with Alpine skis there is nearly always a mark on the ski for
either the toe of the boot or the midle of the boot sole, depending on who
the ski was made by. Ski shops use a jig supplied by the binding maker to
tell them where to drill the holes, anything else leaves a lot of room for
error.

Most ski shops are probably not going to want to adjust a pair of bindings
that you mounted yourself, for various liability reasons. By the time you
pay for the tuneup and binding adjust, it won't cost that much more to have
them adjusted by the shop, if they are still idemnified by Solomon, and if
they are still in good working order.
--
mark
>

[Walt]

mark wrote:
> "Terry Hill" wrote ...

> > Anyway, I bought a pair of
> > Solomon 637 bindings on eBay, and I want to install them myself, but since
> > I have never done it before, I need a few tips.

This question comes up a lot. See <http://tinyurl.com/xj79> for the
last installment. What was true a month ago is still true today.
Bottom line: pay a professional to do it for you.

By the way, the Salomon 637 may not be on this year's indemnification
list. If it isn't, no shop will work on it.

Anybody know where to find this year's list? It used to be available on
the web, but it appears to have vanished...

--
//-Walt
//
// The Volkl Conspiracy

[Chester Bullock]

Walt wrote:

>
> Anybody know where to find this year's list? It used to be available on
> the web, but it appears to have vanished...
>

The NSSRA seems to have it online, but it requires membership to access...
http://www.nssra.com/2001/nssra/index.asp?centre=liste&titre=Articles%C2%A0by%C2%A0date

--
Chester Bullock,
Ethical, custom website hosting, design and programming
Tenxible Solutions, http://www.tenxible.com
Web Based Autoresponder and DRIP system, http://www.toolsre.com
AIM: tenxible YahooIM: ccb247

[Walt]

Chester Bullock wrote:
> Walt wrote:

> > Anybody know where to find this year's [indemnification] list? It used to be available on
> > the web, but it appears to have vanished...
> >
> The NSSRA seems to have it online, but it requires membership to access...
> http://www.nssra.com/2001/nssra/index.asp?centre=liste&titre=Articles%C2%A0by%C2%A0date

Right. I found that too, but I'm not a member.

Why is this vital safety information kept secret? One would think that
it would be in everyones interest to make this data public.

--
//-Walt
//
// The Volkl Conspiracy

[Chester Bullock]

Walt wrote:

> Chester Bullock wrote:
>
>>Walt wrote:
>
>
>>>Anybody know where to find this year's [indemnification] list? It used to be available on
>>>the web, but it appears to have vanished...
>>>
>>
>>The NSSRA seems to have it online, but it requires membership to access...
>>http://www.nssra.com/2001/nssra/index.asp?centre=liste&titre=Articles%C2%A0by%C2%A0date
>
>
> Right. I found that too, but I'm not a member.
>
> Why is this vital safety information kept secret? One would think that
> it would be in everyones interest to make this data public.
>

I agree. I emailed the guy that owns the site and asked if he could
make it available. We'll see what he says. Maybe if more people email
him, he will be more inclined to make it available.

--
Chester Bullock,
Ethical, custom website hosting, design and programming
Tenxible Solutions, http://www.tenxible.com
Web Based Autoresponder and DRIP system, http://www.toolsre.com
AIM: tenxible YahooIM: ccb247

[Chester Bullock]

Chester Bullock wrote:

> Walt wrote:
>
>> Chester Bullock wrote:
>>
>>> Walt wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Anybody know where to find this year's [indemnification] list? It
>>>> used to be available on
>>>> the web, but it appears to have vanished...
>>>>
>>>
>>> The NSSRA seems to have it online, but it requires membership to
>>> access...
>>> http://www.nssra.com/2001/nssra/index.asp?centre=liste&titre=Articles%C2%A0by%C2%A0date
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Right. I found that too, but I'm not a member.
>> Why is this vital safety information kept secret? One would think that
>> it would be in everyones interest to make this data public.
>>
>
> I agree. I emailed the guy that owns the site and asked if he could
> make it available. We'll see what he says. Maybe if more people email
> him, he will be more inclined to make it available.
>

So I should have posted his address...



Alternately, maybe Seth can get it. I think he has connections... :)

--
Chester Bullock,
Ethical, custom website hosting, design and programming
Tenxible Solutions, http://www.tenxible.com
Web Based Autoresponder and DRIP system, http://www.toolsre.com
AIM: tenxible YahooIM: ccb247

[Schmoe]

"Walt" > wrote in message
...
> mark wrote:
> > "Terry Hill" wrote ...
>
> > > Anyway, I bought a pair of
> > > Solomon 637 bindings on eBay, and I want to install them myself, but
since
> > > I have never done it before, I need a few tips.
>
> This question comes up a lot. See <http://tinyurl.com/xj79> for the
> last installment. What was true a month ago is still true today.
> Bottom line: pay a professional to do it for you.

Yep, that was me. I took the majority advice and found a shop who did it for
$30 rather then the $50 that most shops quoted. Done, looks fine, now time
to go skiing.

[lal_truckee]

Terry Hill wrote:

> If anybody could help me out with this, I would appreciate it. I have an old
> pair of downhill skis that I picked up recently that seemed pretty good, and
> were the right size for me, but they had old bindings on them. I was thinking
> that they would make a great second pair of skis for spring skiing or for use
> on days when conditions are less than optimal. Anyway, I bought a pair of
> Solomon 637 bindings on eBay, and I want to install them myself, but since I
> have never done it before, I need a few tips. My plan is to put them on myself
> and then take the skis in for a tune-up and binding adjustment. I understand
> that you have to find the ski balance point with a straightedge, and I do have
> the right mounting screws, as they came with the bindings, and I know that you
> have to fill the screw holes with epoxy glue. What I don't know is where
> exactly do I position the bindings for mounting? How do I know how far apart
> to put the bindings? Do I just hold the bindings up against the boot, or what?
> And do I balance the ski with the boot in place? Any tips would be greatly
> appreciated

I'm sorry to say that most of what you "know" is wrong.

First, Salomon 637s are old; they don't appear on the 2002-2003 bindings
indemnification lists, so they certainly didn't reappear on the current
lists (the Salomon x57 series bindings are the oldest bindings Salomon
indemnified in 2002-3.)

Second, Alpine skis almost all have a boot toe mark on the ski; some
have a boot sole center mark on the ski. The boots have a mount point
molded into the sole. Up to you to know which type of mark. If no mark,
you find the mount mount by either the running surface method of the
cord method (look them up in a good ski mechanic's book.)

Third you use wood glue, not epoxy in the screw holes - it's only for
sealing against moisture, not for retention - you want to be able to
remove the screws eventually.

How far apart to mount toe/heel bindings depends on the range of binding
heel adjustment (usually center the heel in its track, unless you have
special requirements) and pre-load travel distance requirements. Then
you just center-line the bindings, drill (and tap, if there's a metal
top-skin on the ski,) without punching through the base, but deep enough
the screw doesn't dimple the base, lube with wood glue, and screw down
to torque specs. Mount the second ski identical to the first.

Then, of course, you adjust to boots for proper pre-load, set the
release to DIN standards, and fully test both release torque and
function, discarding the bindings if they fall out of spec bounds.

[Seth Masia]

I have the indemnification list, but I won't make it public, either. Sorry.
The issue is that the lists are furnished to indemnified shops -- that is,
to ski shops who send their shoprats to be certified as having all their
wits (and fingers) intact. When your friendly neighborhood non-certified
"expert" has the list and claims he can do the job safely, it leads to
customers believing that the guy is backed by the manufacturer's warranty
and indemnification program, when in fact he's not. I don't wanna be a
party to that transaction.

Seth

"Chester Bullock" > wrote in message
...
> Chester Bullock wrote:
>
> > Walt wrote:
> >
> >> Chester Bullock wrote:
> >>
> >>> Walt wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>> Anybody know where to find this year's [indemnification] list? It
> >>>> used to be available on
> >>>> the web, but it appears to have vanished...
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> The NSSRA seems to have it online, but it requires membership to
> >>> access...
> >>>
http://www.nssra.com/2001/nssra/index.asp?centre=liste&titre=Articles%C2%A0by%C2%A0date
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Right. I found that too, but I'm not a member.
> >> Why is this vital safety information kept secret? One would think that
> >> it would be in everyones interest to make this data public.
> >>
> >
> > I agree. I emailed the guy that owns the site and asked if he could
> > make it available. We'll see what he says. Maybe if more people email
> > him, he will be more inclined to make it available.
> >
>
> So I should have posted his address...
>
>
>
> Alternately, maybe Seth can get it. I think he has connections... :)
>
> --
> Chester Bullock,
> Ethical, custom website hosting, design and programming
> Tenxible Solutions, http://www.tenxible.com
> Web Based Autoresponder and DRIP system, http://www.toolsre.com
> AIM: tenxible YahooIM: ccb247
>

[scottabe]

Ethics from Seth Masia?
Bit of a disconnect, eh? After all, he is friendly with a pathological liar
who has grossly defamed me, his buddy Lloyd. He is civil to criminals and
terrorists. He has never condemned the vileness of rsa, and he is buddies
with members of the criminal conspiracy that has harassed me in real life.
Seems that Seth Masia's ethics are for show, not for go.
I wonder what Masia would say if HE was being falsely accused of molesting
his daughter, simply because he told the truth about the vileness of his
buddy Lloyd.

in article , Seth Masia at
wrote on 12/3/03 9:13 PM:

> I have the indemnification list, but I won't make it public, either. Sorry.
> The issue is that the lists are furnished to indemnified shops -- that is,
> to ski shops who send their shoprats to be certified as having all their
> wits (and fingers) intact. When your friendly neighborhood non-certified
> "expert" has the list and claims he can do the job safely, it leads to
> customers believing that the guy is backed by the manufacturer's warranty
> and indemnification program, when in fact he's not. I don't wanna be a
> party to that transaction.
>
> Seth
>
> "Chester Bullock" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Chester Bullock wrote:
>>
>>> Walt wrote:
>>>
>>>> Chester Bullock wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Walt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Anybody know where to find this year's [indemnification] list? It
>>>>>> used to be available on
>>>>>> the web, but it appears to have vanished...
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The NSSRA seems to have it online, but it requires membership to
>>>>> access...
>>>>>
> http://www.nssra.com/2001/nssra/index.asp?centre=liste&titre=Articles%C2%A0by%
> C2%A0date
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Right. I found that too, but I'm not a member.
>>>> Why is this vital safety information kept secret? One would think that
>>>> it would be in everyones interest to make this data public.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I agree. I emailed the guy that owns the site and asked if he could
>>> make it available. We'll see what he says. Maybe if more people email
>>> him, he will be more inclined to make it available.
>>>
>>
>> So I should have posted his address...
>>
>>
>>
>> Alternately, maybe Seth can get it. I think he has connections... :)
>>
>> --
>> Chester Bullock,
>> Ethical, custom website hosting, design and programming
>> Tenxible Solutions, http://www.tenxible.com
>> Web Based Autoresponder and DRIP system, http://www.toolsre.com
>> AIM: tenxible YahooIM: ccb247
>>
>
>

[Walt]

Seth Masia wrote:
>
> I have the indemnification list, but I won't make it public, either. Sorry.
> The issue is that the lists are furnished to indemnified shops -- that is,
> to ski shops who send their shoprats to be certified as having all their
> wits (and fingers) intact. When your friendly neighborhood non-certified
> "expert" has the list and claims he can do the job safely, it leads to
> customers believing that the guy is backed by the manufacturer's warranty
> and indemnification program, when in fact he's not. I don't wanna be a
> party to that transaction.

Well, that's not why I want to see it. I often troll the ski swaps
looking for used gear, and I'd like to know whether the bindings are
still supported by the manufacturer. Is this too much to ask?

If I'm buying a car, I can check lemon lists and recall notices. If I'm
buying software, I can find out what the supported versions are. Why
not bindings?

The guy who started this thread bought a pair of bindings on Ebay, and
it appears that he bought a pair that are not on the indemnification
list. I'd like to be able to tell people "before you buy used
bindings, check the list". But I can't, because the industry in it's
infinite wisdom has decided to make it secret. Sorry, but that's wrong.

And as for the friendly neighborhood non-certified "expert", by keeping
the list secret you just add to their mystique of credibility. If
they've managed to get ahold of the secret list ( or just claim that
they have a copy of the secret list, which they refuse to show you on
the basis that its secret) it makes them seem *more* credible than if
they had just copied some public information off the internet. Like so
many other attempts to save people from themselves by hiding
information, it's counter-productive.

Sorry if I sound ****ed off about this, but I am. I'm not mad at you,
Seth - you probably signed some non-disclosure agreement to get the
list, and can't legally post the list without repercussions. But who's
idea was it to keep this info secret?

--
//-Walt
//
// The Volkl Conspiracy

[The Real Bev]

Walt wrote:
>
> Seth Masia wrote:
> >
> > I have the indemnification list, but I won't make it public, either. Sorry.
> > The issue is that the lists are furnished to indemnified shops -- that is,
> > to ski shops who send their shoprats to be certified as having all their
> > wits (and fingers) intact. When your friendly neighborhood non-certified
> > "expert" has the list and claims he can do the job safely, it leads to
> > customers believing that the guy is backed by the manufacturer's warranty
> > and indemnification program, when in fact he's not. I don't wanna be a
> > party to that transaction.
>
> Well, that's not why I want to see it. I often troll the ski swaps
> looking for used gear, and I'd like to know whether the bindings are
> still supported by the manufacturer. Is this too much to ask?
>
> If I'm buying a car, I can check lemon lists and recall notices. If I'm
> buying software, I can find out what the supported versions are. Why
> not bindings?
....

A while back omebody posted a link to the 2002-3 list published by
snowtradenews. I tried to find it but couldn't. Maybe somebody else
will have better luck. I did find that there's a movie called "Mad Pow
Disease," though.

--
Cheers,
Bev
=================================================
It's not the speed that kills, it's the stopping.

[Chester Bullock]

Walt wrote:

> Well, that's not why I want to see it. I often troll the ski swaps
> looking for used gear, and I'd like to know whether the bindings are
> still supported by the manufacturer. Is this too much to ask?
>
> If I'm buying a car, I can check lemon lists and recall notices. If I'm
> buying software, I can find out what the supported versions are. Why
> not bindings?


I agree with you Walt, it would be good to know what is 'supported'
these days and what is not. I would think this would be good for the
industry, as people might pony up for new bindings when they see that
the ones they could by are not 'supported' any more. It looks like, from
the NSSRA site, that I could get the list for a membership, which is
$120. If we all pitch in we could get it out into the world. I don't
see any real reason why it shouldn't be out there for everyone to see.

Related question: Is this also what some people refer to as being 'out
of DIN'?

--
Chester Bullock,
Ethical, custom website hosting, design and programming
Tenxible Solutions, http://www.tenxible.com
Web Based Autoresponder and DRIP system, http://www.toolsre.com
AIM: tenxible YahooIM: ccb247

[The Real Bev]

The Real Bev wrote:

> A while back omebody posted a link to the 2002-3 list published by
> snowtradenews. I tried to find it but couldn't. Maybe somebody else
> will have better luck. I did find that there's a movie called "Mad Pow
> Disease," though.

Duh! Never mind...

--
Cheers,
Bev
=================================================
It's not the speed that kills, it's the stopping.

[Walt]

The Real Bev wrote:
> Walt wrote:
> > Seth Masia wrote:
> > >
> > > I have the indemnification list, but I won't make it public, either. Sorry.
>
> > If I'm buying a car, I can check lemon lists and recall notices. If I'm
> > buying software, I can find out what the supported versions are. Why
> > not bindings?
> ...
>
> A while back omebody posted a link to the 2002-3 list published by
> snowtradenews. I tried to find it but couldn't.

IIRC, Snowtradenews and www.snowtradenews.com went belly-up last March.
Here's an idea: Maybe we could find the former editor and ask him
nicely to post the list? Anybody know where we might find him?

--
//-Walt
//
// The Volkl Conspiracy

[Richard Henry]

"Walt" > wrote in message
...
>
> If I'm buying a car, I can check lemon lists and recall notices. If I'm
> buying software, I can find out what the supported versions are. Why
> not bindings?

If you are buying new bindings, the shop and manufacturer will work together
to increase the likelihood that your experience will be pleasant and safe.

If you are buying used bindings, they don't give a crap about you. They
want you to buy new bindings.

[Walt]

Chester Bullock wrote:
> Walt wrote:
>
> > Well, that's not why I want to see it. I often troll the ski swaps
> > looking for used gear, and I'd like to know whether the bindings are
> > still supported by the manufacturer. Is this too much to ask?
>
> I agree with you Walt, it would be good to know what is 'supported'
> these days and what is not. I would think this would be good for the
> industry, as people might pony up for new bindings when they see that
> the ones they could by are not 'supported' any more.

No, what would be good for the industry is for everyone to buy new gear
every year.

The cynical side of me says that they're hiding the indemnification list
to curtail the used-gear market. "Watch out, don't buy used gear -
there's no way to know whether it's obsolete or not" Heck, the whole
indemnification scam is there to make people throw away perfectly
functional (if perhaps obsolete) equipment. I don't know of any other
product where the manufacturers have this ability to obsolete an item by
fiat.


> It looks like, from
> the NSSRA site, that I could get the list for a membership, which is
> $120. If we all pitch in we could get it out into the world. I don't
> see any real reason why it shouldn't be out there for everyone to see.

Chances are it's copyrighted, so even if I paid the $120 I wouldn't be
allowed to reproduce it. And it's not worth it to me since I can always
call up the shop and ask about a particular model for free. My hunch is
that after 10 calls they'd probably just give me a copy of the list to
keep me out of their hair.

> Related question: Is this also what some people refer to as being 'out
> of DIN'?

I think 'out of DIN' happens when you want to set your DIN to eleven and
your bindings only go up to ten. (c:

--
//-Walt
//
// The Volkl Conspiracy

[lal_truckee]

Chester Bullock wrote:

> Related question: Is this also what some people refer to as being 'out
> of DIN'?

No. As I understand it, when a shop tests a binding (most shops will
only test an indemnified binding) they set it to the proper DIN release
number on the binding scale; they then test the torque required to
release; if it's too different from the torque the scale implies the
binding is "out of DIN."

Alternative way to look at it: they set the DIN on the binding to that
required to provide the appropriate torque for the user using their test
rig; if the binding scale then doesn't read within a certain tolerance
of the appropriate number from the charts the binding is "out of DIN."

It catches some types of wear and malfunction on the binding; usually
however, it's just a spring that's slightly off, and if the binding is
set to the appropriate torque and in the middle of range nothing is the
worse. The trick off course is to get the torque set without test gear,
since shops won't set a binding that's "out of DIN."

[The Real Bev]

Walt wrote:
>
> The Real Bev wrote:
> > Walt wrote:
> > > Seth Masia wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have the indemnification list, but I won't make it public, either. Sorry.
> >
> > > If I'm buying a car, I can check lemon lists and recall notices. If I'm
> > > buying software, I can find out what the supported versions are. Why
> > > not bindings?
> > ...
> >
> > A while back omebody posted a link to the 2002-3 list published by
> > snowtradenews. I tried to find it but couldn't.
>
> IIRC, Snowtradenews and www.snowtradenews.com went belly-up last March.
> Here's an idea: Maybe we could find the former editor and ask him
> nicely to post the list? Anybody know where we might find him?

I repeat: Duh!

--
Cheers,
Bev
================================================== =======
"If you watch TV news, you know less about the world than
if you just drank gin straight from the bottle."
- Garrison Keillor

[sjjohnston]

A few thoughts:

Walt makes a good point in his argument about why the list should be
available, if public interest is the issue. Clearly, if I'm buying
some used bindings, or skis with used bindings (whether it's at a swap
meet, off of eBay, or from my cousin), I want to know whether a ski
shop will re-mount them and adjust them for me before I pay up. And
it's not really a good alternative for me to carry around my cell
phone and call the local shop over and over: "Can you work on these?"
.... "How about these?" ... "Can you help me now?"

I suspect part of the reason they don't want to release the list might
be because it could be interpreted as some sort of warranty that any
used binding that *is* on the list is therefore in good condition.
That seems a bit attenuated, though. As does the argument that
possession of the list (if it were publicly available to everyone on
websites and in magazines) would create a misimpression that anyone
who has it is a qualified technician.

A darker part of me suspects that the fact that not releasing the list
impairs the market for used bindings, in favor of new ones, might play
some role.

[lal_truckee]

Sven Golly wrote:
> Walt > wrote in news:3FCF4CD4.C88A2324
> @boatnerd.com.invalid:
>
>
>>Sorry if I sound ****ed off about this, but I am. I'm not mad at you,
>>Seth - you probably signed some non-disclosure agreement to get the
>>list, and can't legally post the list without repercussions. But who's
>>idea was it to keep this info secret?
>
>
> Try this:
>
> http://www.skiernet.com/indemnified.html

2002-2003

[Walt]

lal_truckee wrote:
> Sven Golly wrote:>
>> Try this:
>>
>> http://www.skiernet.com/indemnified.html
>
> 2002-2003


Right. This is last year's list, which was publicly available:

"Alright, we're at the 2003-2004 season and we're forced to
use an old chart. This is really a "guide" only...contact
your local ski shop. Soon as we have a current one we'll update."

Or as my niece would put it: "Man, that is *so* last year"

--
// Walt
//
// There is no Volkl Conspiracy

[Thomas Raml]

Walt wrote:

> Chester Bullock wrote:
> > Walt wrote:
> >
> > > Well, that's not why I want to see it. I often troll the ski swaps
> > > looking for used gear, and I'd like to know whether the bindings are
> > > still supported by the manufacturer. Is this too much to ask?
> >
> > I agree with you Walt, it would be good to know what is 'supported'
> > these days and what is not. I would think this would be good for the
> > industry, as people might pony up for new bindings when they see that
> > the ones they could by are not 'supported' any more.
>
> No, what would be good for the industry is for everyone to buy new gear
> every year.
>
> The cynical side of me says that they're hiding the indemnification list
> to curtail the used-gear market. "Watch out, don't buy used gear -
> there's no way to know whether it's obsolete or not" Heck, the whole
> indemnification scam is there to make people throw away perfectly
> functional (if perhaps obsolete) equipment. I don't know of any other
> product where the manufacturers have this ability to obsolete an item by
> fiat.
>
>
> > It looks like, from
> > the NSSRA site, that I could get the list for a membership, which is
> > $120. If we all pitch in we could get it out into the world. I don't
> > see any real reason why it shouldn't be out there for everyone to see.
>
> Chances are it's copyrighted, so even if I paid the $120 I wouldn't be
> allowed to reproduce it. And it's not worth it to me since I can always
> call up the shop and ask about a particular model for free. My hunch is
> that after 10 calls they'd probably just give me a copy of the list to

AAHH, BAAH,

If you can wrang out your ski-boots with most effort (rear bindings
up/left/right/up, in some bindings front up) with allyour strength in
stllstand(try it on a mat in your garage - and _really_ try it, front and
rear bindings) your on the save side. Most Iinjuries occur by falling just
aside (lift rows), with bindings secured too heavily. I

I.m skiing on an old LooK 700 Binding and looking forward to´get my old
Marker M4 + the one with the springs (you know - hopefully) on my new
skies ;-)
I _always_ knew when I was false (technically speeking) skiing,. My fault -
Ski goes off - me wrong skiing.
I tried the carvers (Atomic don´t know which, I can do anything with
normal skies (192 cm SL), that one can do with carvers. OK I´m exhausted
at 3:pm ;-)
> keep me out of their hair.
>
> > Related question: Is this also what some people refer to as being 'out
> > of DIN'?
>
> I think 'out of DIN' happens when you want to set your DIN to eleven and
> your bindings only go up to ten. (c:
>

--
Nobody is perfect, not even in failing

[john.riedel]

This was identified to me as the "2003 list". Use it at your own risk.
Knowing this stuff won't make you a binding technician.
This list may not be correct, and/or I may have messed it up while
reformatting it.
If you are in doubt, ask your local shop.
After you buy your used bindings, take them to your shop for testing and
adjustment.
Its your life, and your body, try not to be stupid.

Atomic
2003/2004

Race 614, Race 412, Race 310, Race 259, SX 614, SX 412, SX 310, CR 614, CR
412, CR 310,
CR 311, CR 614 (88mm), CR 412 (88mm), CR 310 (88mm), R 614 (99, 107mm), R
412 (99, 107mm),
Centro 4.12, Centro 3.10, Device 310, Device 311, Device 412, Race 275, Race
045,
Race 275+, Race 045+ Hard & Soft Touch Pad (Power brake)

2002/2003

Race 614, Race 412, Race 310, Race 259, Carv 614, Carv 412, Carv 310, Carv
311, X 412,
X 310, R 614, R 412, R 310, R 614 (88, 99, 107mm), R 412 (88, 99, 107mm),
Centro 4.12,
Centro 3.10, Device 310, Device 311, Device 412
Hard & Soft Touch Pad (Power brake)

2001/2002

RaceRace 614, RaceRace 412, RaceRace 310, XentriX 614, XentriX 412, XentriX
310,
XentriX 311, XentriX 614 EX, Centro 4.12, Centro 3.10, Device 310, Device
311, Device 412
Hard & Soft Touch Pad (Power brake)

2000/2001

RaceRace 614, RaceRace 412, RaceRace 310, Race 614
XentriX 614, XentriX 412, XentriX 310, XentriX 311, XentriX 614 EX, Centro
4.12,
Centro 3.10, Device 310, Device 311, Device 412
Hard & Soft Touch Pad (Power brake)

Prior to 2000

Sport 4.12 / Sport 4.12 TR, Sport CXB, Sport 2.9, Sport 2.9 TR, Sport CXB,
EM 310,
EM 310 P, EM 412, EM 412 P, EM 614, EM 614 P, ESStatix 2.9, ESStatix 4.12,
ESS 310 FB,
ESS 309, ESS 512, ESS 614, ESS 614 P



Fischer
2003/2004

FR17 Freeflex, FR11 Freeflex, FX12 ABS (and w/ Railflex), FX10 ABS (and w/
Railflex),
FS10, FS10 Carveconcept ABS (and w/ Railflex), FJ7 Carveconcept ABS, FJ7,
FJ4

Rental

FX13 Pro Plus, FS12 Pro, FS10 Pro, FJ7 Pro, FJ4 Pro, FS10 Rent, FJ4 Rent

Previous years

F11 PowerConcept, F10 CarveConcept S, F10 CarveConcept, F10, F9, F7, F4

Previous Rental

F11 Synchro Center, F9 Synchro Center, F7 Synchro Center, F9 Synchro Rental,
F4 Synchro Rental



Look
Pivot/Turntable

ZRV18, Z Race (all versions), P14 (all versions), P12 (all versions), P11
(all versions),
P10 (all versions), P9.0 (all versions), P8.0 (all versions), P7.5 (all
versions),
P7.0 (all versions), ZR R, P 9.0L, P 8.0L, P 7.0L (all versions), P Sport
(all versions),
TT9.0 (all versions), TT 8.0 RL, TT 9 RL, TT C-Tech, TT9, TT09, TT8, TT08,
TT7, TT09, XP,
Z-Forza

Rental

P12 Demo, P10 Demo, TX 11 Quickset, Team 4 (all versions), XR (all
versions), JX 7 Rental,
P 8.0 (all versions), TX 7.5 (all versions), LJ4.5 Quickset adult/junior,
TX 8.0 (all versions), TX 7.0 (all versions), XJ 4.5RL, TX8 (all versions),
TX7 Demo

Step-In

TX (all versions), Nova 10 (all versions), Nova 9 (all versions), TC9, TC09,
TC8, TC08,
TC7, TC07, TC06, Z-Racing, ZRC, Z-Sport, XR (all versions), XT (all
versions), L60, L50,
L30 adult/junior boot sole, L45, XP05, XP03, Z-Forza

Junior

Team P10, Team 8 Maxplate, Team 8, Team 4 adult/junior boot sole, P9.0 Jr.,
XJ9.0,
LJ4.5 adult/junior boot sole, P9.0 Jr., XJ7.0 Jr., TT9.0 Jr., XR9.0 Jr.,
XJ4.5 junior boot sole, TT9, XJ3 Kid junior boot sole, XJ09, XJ5,
XJ05 adult/junior boot sole, XJ3 junior boot sole, XJ05 junior boot sole,
XR9 Jr., ZR Jr.



Marker
2003/2004 Retail Bindings

MRR Comp 1500, MRR Free, Comp 1400 Piston Control, Comp 1400 EPS, Comp 1400
Free,
Titanium 1300 IBC, Titanium 1300 Piston Control, Titanium 1200 Piston
Control,
Titanium 1200 EPS, Titanium 1200 Free, M1100 Titanium IBC, M1100 Titanium
CCxi,
M1100 CCxi, M1000 CC, M1000 EC10, M900 EPS, M1000 Jr. Comp CCxi/EPS,
M700 EC10, M700 EPS, M450 EPS, Piston Motion Comp 1400, Piston Motion 1200,
Motion Titanium 1200, Motion 12, Motion 10, IBC Mod 12, IBC Mod 11, IBC Mod
10,
Synergy Track Titanium 1200, Synergy Track Titanium 1100, Synergy Track
M1100,
Fusion M1200, Fusion M1100

2003/2004 Rental/Demo Bindings

Comp 1400 SP Demo, Titanium 1200 SP Demo, M1100 Titanium SP Demo, M900 SP
Demo, M1000 RTL,
M700 RTL, M450 RTL

Non-Current Retail Bindings

Comp 1400 Glide Control, Titanium 1300 Glide Control, Titanium 1200 Glide
Control,
MRR Racing EC14, MRR Racing EPS, M1000 EPS, M8.2 EC14 Graphite, M7.2
Graphite SC,
M7.2 Graphite EC14, M6.2 SC, M6.2 EC14/EPS, M5.2 EC10, M3.2, M9.2 EC10/EPS
Jr.,
M2.2 EC10/EPS, M1.2 EPS. MRR Turbo SC Racing, M9.2 Turbo SC Racing,
M9.2 Turbo SC Titanium, M8.2 SC Graphite, M7.2 SC, M9.2 EC14/EPS Racing,
M9.2 EC14 Titanium, M7.2 EC14/EPS, M4.2 EC14/EPS, M3.1, MRR Turbo SC
Titanium,
M9.1 Turbo SC Racing, M9.1 Turbo SC Titanium, M8.1 SC, M8.1 SC XLi, M7.1 SC,
MRR EPS/EPS3 Racing, MRR EPS/EPS3 Titanium, M9.1 EPS/EPS3 Racing, M9.1
EPS/EPS3 Titanium
M8.1 EPS/EPS3 Graphite, M8.1 EPS/EPS3, M8.1 EPS XLi, M7.1 EPS/EPS3, M6.1
EPS/EPS3,
M5.1 EPS/EPS3, M4.1, M9.1J Racing EPS, M3.1J Carving EPS, M2.1, M1.1, M9,
M1 SC/Turbo SC Racing, M1 SC/Turbo SC Titanium, M51 SC/Turbo SC Racing,
M51 SC/Turbo SC Titanium, M51 SC Demonstrator, M41 SC/SC2/XLi, M31
SC/SC2/XLi, M29V SC/SC2
MRR Racing /EPS/EPS2, MRR Titanium /EPS/EPS2, M51 Racing /X-Stream/EPS/EPS2,
M51 Titanium /EPS/EPS2, M51Graphite/EPS/EPS2/95mm/110mm, M51 /EPS/ EPS2,
M41/EPS/ EPS2/XLi/95mm, M31 /EPS/ EPS2, M29V EPS/EPS2, M28V /EPS/EPS2, M27V
EPS/EPS2,
M19 Racing /EPS/EPS2, M19V, M48 Racing, M48 Titanium, M48, M38, M38L, M28,
M27,
M18 Racing, MRR Twincam, MR Twincam, M19, M18, M8, Motion Comp 1400

Non-Current Rental/Demo Bindings

M1000 SP Demo, M7.2 Graphite SP Demo, M5.2 SP Demo, M5.2 EPS RTL, M2.2 EPS
RTL,
M1.2 EPS RTL, M9.2 SP Demo, M8.2 SP Graphite Demo, M7.2 SP Demo, M7.2 EC
RTL,
M9.1 Turbo SC Titanium RTL, M8.1 SC RTL, M9.1 Titanium EPS RTL/Demo,
M8.1 Graphite EPS RTL/Demo, M8.1 EPS RTL/Demo, M7.1 EPS RTL/Demo, M5.1 EPS
RTL/Demo,
M19V RTL, M51 SC/Turbo SC Racing RTL/Demo, M51 SC/Turbo SC Titanium
RTL/Demo,
M41 SC2 RTL, M41 SC Demo, M51 Racing /EPS/ RTL/Demo, M51 Titanium
/EPS/RTL/Demo,
M51 Graphite /EPS/RTL/Demo/95mm/110mm
M41 /EPS/ RTL/Demo, M41 XLi RTL/Demo/95mm, M31 EPS RTL/Demo, M29V EPS
FasTrak RTL/Demo,
M1 SC Racing Demo, M1SC Titanium Demo, M48 Racing RTL/Demo, M48 Titanium
RTL/Demo,
M48 RTL/Demo, M38 RTL/Demo, M28 RTL, M27 RTL, M19 Demo, M18 Demo


Rossignol
(Rossignol Indemnification program only applies to Rossignol alpine ski
bindings, not Geze.)

2003/2004

Power 140 (all versions), Power 120 (all versions), Power 100 (all
versions),
Power 95 (all versions), Axial 140 (all versions), Axial 120 (all versions),
Axial 110 (all versions), Axial 100 (all versions), Scratch 140, Scratch
100,
FKX (all versions), FT 100 R Flex, FKS (all versions), FKJ Course, FS,
FTX 105 (all versions), FDX 100 (all versions), FDX 95, FK, FKS Pro,
FTS (all versions), FTX 120 (all versions), FTX 110 (all versions), FT Cut,
FTX 105,
FT 100, FT 120, FT 110, FJ, FTX 120 SS, FTX 105 SS, FD 75 SS, FT 120 Demo
SS,
FT 100 Demo SS, FD 70 Demo SS, FD 80 (all versions), FD 70 (all versions),
FD 60 (all versions), FDX 75, Axium 100, Axium 90, Saphir 95 (all versions),
Saphir 90 (all versions), Axium Scratch (all versions), Axium 110 (all
versions),
Axium 100 (all versions,) Axium 95 (all versions), Axium 90 (all versions),
Axium 70 (all versions), FDX Saphir, FD 60, FD 65, FD 8, FD 7, FD 6, FD 8
PL,
FD RTL, FD RTL, FD 6 RTL, FKJ Pro, FDJ (all versions), Axial 100 Race Jr.,
Equipe Race Jr., Equipe J, Equipe 80, Comp J (all versions), FPS Course,
FPS Composite, FPS, FPS Li, FPS Test



Salomon

2003/2004 Retail Bindings

S914 Fis Pilot, S914 Pilot, S912 Fis Pilot, S912 Ti Pilot, S912 Ti SC Pilot,
S810 Ti Pilot, S810 Pilot, S810 Ti SC Pilot, S710 Pilot, S710 SC Pilot, S710
Ti Pilot,
S914 Axe+, S914 Fis, S914 Pe 2, S914, S912 Ti Pe 2, S912 Ti, S912 Ps, S910
T, S910,
S810 Ti Axe+, S810 Cp, S810 Ps, S711 Ps, S710 Cp, S710, C610 Cp, C610, C509
Dr+,
C509, C608 Cp, C608, C305, C305 MINI

2003/2004 Rental Bindings

S912 Ti SC, S810 Ti SC, Cosmic S712 SC, Cosmic S710 SR, Cosmic S710 SC,
Cosmic S710,
S305 SC, C608 SR, C608 SC, C509 SR, C509 SC, C305 SR, Snowtrip ST 410

Non-current Retail Bindings

Driver Suspension 997 Equipe, Driver Suspension 997 Carbon, Driver 997
Equipe,
Driver 997 Carbon, 997 Equipe, 997 Carbon, 997 EXP, 997 Composite, 977
Force,
977 Team, 977, 957 Race, 957 Equipe, 957 Composite S914 Pe, S912 Ti Pe, S912
Pe,
S912, S910 T Ps, S910 T Axe+, SP900 Equipe, SP900 Equipe Alium, SP900 Alium,
S900 Equipe Team Race, S900 Equipe Team Drive Plus, S900 Equipe Team Axe+,
S900 Equipe Team, S900 Equipe Race, S900 Equipe Poweraxe, S900 Equipe Drive
Plus,
S900 Equipe Axe+, S900 Equipe Alium Poweraxe, S900 Equipe Alium Drive Plus,
S900 Equipe Alium Axe+, S900 Equipe Alium, S900 Equipe, S900 Carbon
Poweraxe,
S900 Carbon Drive Plus, S900 Carbon Axe+, S900 Carbon, S900 Ti, S900 Alium,
S900, Driver Suspension 897 Composite, Driver Suspension 897, Driver 897
Composite,
897 Equipe, 877 Equipe, 877, 857, 857 Lady, SP850, S850 X-Mountain, S850
Poweraxe,
S850 Alium X-Mountain, S850 Carve w/Ramp Plus, S850 Carve, S850 Axe+, S850,
S811 PS,
S810 Ti Ps, S810 Axe+, S810, Quadrax 800 Carbon, Quadrax 800, SP800, S800
Poweraxe,
S800 Drive Plus, S800 Alium, S800, 797 Composite, Driver 797 Composite, 797,
777,
777 Lady, 757, 757 Lady, S710 Ti Cp 2, S710 Pa, S710 DP, S710 CP 2, S710
Axe+,
S708 T Axe+, Quadrax 700, S700 Team Poweraxe, S700 Team, S700 Axe+, S700,
677, 657,
C610 CP 2, S608 CP, C608 CP 2, Q600 Poweraxe, Q600, Quadrax 600, 577, 557,
557 Sport,
557 Lite, C509 D+, Q500, 457, C407 Grom, Quadrax 400, Q400, S305 GROM, C305
GROM,
C305 MINI GROM, Quadrax 300, Q300, S300, Driver 197 Equipe Junior, 197
Equipe Junior,
177 Equipe Junior, 177, 157 Equipe, 157 Junior, 57 Team, 57 Junior, 57 Mini,
Suspension DR9 Equipe, Suspension DR9 EXP, Quadrax 8 Carbon, Quadrax 8,
Suspension DR8 Composite, Quadrax 7, Quadrax 6, Quadrax 6 Lady, Quadrax 5.5,
Quadrax 5, Quadrax 3, Quadrax 3 Mini, Quadrax Team, Team Junior, Team, Force
Junior,
Force, Extreme Carve

Non-current Rental Bindings

Driver Suspension997 Equipe SR, Driver 997 Equipe SC, Driver 997 Equipe SR,
997 Equipe SC,
997 Equipe SR, 977 Equipe Demo, 977 Demo, 957 Equipe Demo, S912 Ti Pe 2
Demo,
S912 Ti Pe Demo, S912 Ti SR, SP900 Equipe Test, S900 Equipe SR Drive Plus,
S900 Equipe SR,
S900 Equipe SC Drive Plus, S900 Equipe SC, SP850 Test, 877 SC, 857 Demo, 857
RR,
S850 SR Drive Plus, S850 SC Drive Plus, S850 SC, S810 SR, S810 SC, S800 SR,
Driver 797 SC,
797 SC, 777 SR, 757 RR, S711 SR, S711 SC, S708 T SR, Q700 SC, S700 Team SR,
S700 SR,
S700 SC Drive Plus, S700 SC, Q500 SC Drive Plus, Q500 SC, Q500 SR, 477 RR,
477 LR,
457 LR, C407 Grom SR, Q400 SR, 357 RR, S305 Grom SC, Q300 SC, Q300 SR, S300
SC,
C305 Grom SR, 177 Team SR, 177 RR, 157 RR, 57 Junior RR, 57 RR, 57 Mini,
Quadrax 7 SC,
Quadrax 7 SR, Quadrax 6 SC, Quadrax 5 SR, Quadrax 5 RR, Q5 SR, Quadrax 3 RR,
Quadrax 3 SC,
Quadrax 3 SR, Quadrax 3, Q3 SC, Q3 SR, Force SR



Tyrolia

2000/01/02/03

Freeflex Plus 10 X, Freeflex Plus 8 X, Freeflex Plus 10, Freeflex Plus 8 LD,
Freeflex Plus 8, Freeflex Plus 7, Madflex 9. HD 14 Railflex, LD 12 Railflex,
LD 10 Railflex, SLD 11 Railflex, SL 11 Railflex, SL 10 Railflex, LD 12 Rail,
SLD 10 Rail, LD 10 Rail. LD 12 Cyber, LD 12 S, LD12, LD 10, Powerselect
Freeride 9,
Powerselect Freeride 8, Powerselect Freeride SL 110, Cyber Carbon D9 SX,
Cyber Carbon D9, Cyber Carbon D8 SX, Cyber Carbon D8, Cyber SL 110, SL 110
Carve ABS,
SL 110 S ABS, SL 110 ABS, SL 100 Carve ABS, SL 100 ABS, SL 100 Carve, SL
100,
SL 70 Carve ABS, SL 70 ABS, SL 70, SL 45, TD8 TS, TD 8, T 6

1997/98/99/00

Freeflex Plus 10, Freeflex Plus 8. Powerselect Freeride 9, Powerselect
Freeride 8,
Powerselect Freeride 7, Power Select 9, Powerselect 8, Freeflex 9 World Cup,
Freeflex 8 Racing, SL 110 Carve ABS, SL 100 Carve ABS, SL 100 ABS TS, SL 100
ABS,
SL 100, Cyber Carbon D9, Cyber D8, Cyber 7, Cyber 6, Carve Flex 6, Carve
Flex 4,
TD 9 T, TD 8, TD 8 TS, T7, T6, T5, T4, T2

Power Series

Power 9 Racing, Power 9 Mogul, Power 9, Power 8, Cyber FF

Cruise Series

Cruise 9 Racing, Cruise 9 Mogul, Cruise 8, Cruise 6

Spirit Series

Spirit 9 Racing, Spirit 9, Spirit 8, Spirit 7, Spirit 6, Spirit 3, Spirit 2

600 Series

690 DD, 690 RDD, 690 DP, 690 PalDP, 690 DPM, 690 RDP. 680 DP, 680 DD, 670
DP, 670 DD,
660 D, 650 D, 630 D, 620 D

700 Series

790 JFF, 790PP, 790 RFF, 790 RPP, 790 MPP, 790PalPP. 790FF, 780FF, 770FF,
760FF, 750FF,
740FF

Rental

Delrin lugs only

SP 130 ABS Demo Aero, SP 120 ABS, SP100 ABS, SP 70 ABS, SP 45. SR 100
SR 70, SR 45. SymPro 9 ABS, SymPro 9 ABS PROMO, SymPro 9, SymPro 8 ABS,
SymPro 8,
SymPro 7, SymPro 4, SymPro 2 SL
SymRent DEMO, SymRent 7, SymRent 6, SymRent 4, SymRent 3, SymRent 2, SymRent
2 SL
Powerselect 8 RENT DEMO, Powerselect 8 Rent. 780 FF Pro, 790 DS PRO, 790 RFF
PRO
690 Pal Pro, 680 DS Pro, 650 DS Pro, 650 DSR, 650 DRLPro, 650 DR, 630 DR,
620 DR

>

[Walt]

john.riedel wrote:

> This was identified to me as the "2003 list". Use it at your own risk.
> Knowing this stuff won't make you a binding technician.
> This list may not be correct, and/or I may have messed it up while
> reformatting it.
> If you are in doubt, ask your local shop.
> After you buy your used bindings, take them to your shop for testing and
> adjustment.
> Its your life, and your body, try not to be stupid.

Thanks. Allow me to reiterate for emphasis:

Use it at your own risk.
Knowing this stuff won't make you a binding technician.
If you are in doubt, ask your local shop.
After you buy your used bindings, take them to your shop for
testing and adjustment.
Its your life, and your body, try not to be stupid.

--
// Walt
//
// There is no Volkl Conspiracy

[Terry Hill]

> Terry Hill wrote:
>
> > If anybody could help me out with this, I would appreciate it. I have an
old
> > pair of downhill skis that I picked up recently that seemed pretty good,
and
> > were the right size for me, but they had old bindings on them. I was
thinking
> > that they would make a great second pair of skis for spring skiing or for
use
> > on days when conditions are less than optimal. Anyway, I bought a pair of
> > Solomon 637 bindings on eBay, and I want to install them myself, but since
I
> > have never done it before, I need a few tips. My plan is to put them on
myself
> > and then take the skis in for a tune-up and binding adjustment. I
understand
> > that you have to find the ski balance point with a straightedge, and I do
have
> > the right mounting screws, as they came with the bindings, and I know that
you
> > have to fill the screw holes with epoxy glue. What I don't know is where
> > exactly do I position the bindings for mounting? How do I know how far
apart
> > to put the bindings? Do I just hold the bindings up against the boot, or
what?
> > And do I balance the ski with the boot in place? Any tips would be
greatly
> > appreciated
>
> I'm sorry to say that most of what you "know" is wrong.
>
> First, Salomon 637s are old; they don't appear on the 2002-2003 bindings
> indemnification lists, so they certainly didn't reappear on the current
> lists (the Salomon x57 series bindings are the oldest bindings Salomon
> indemnified in 2002-3.)
>
> Second, Alpine skis almost all have a boot toe mark on the ski; some
> have a boot sole center mark on the ski. The boots have a mount point
> molded into the sole. Up to you to know which type of mark. If no mark,
> you find the mount mount by either the running surface method of the
> cord method (look them up in a good ski mechanic's book.)
>
> Third you use wood glue, not epoxy in the screw holes - it's only for
> sealing against moisture, not for retention - you want to be able to
> remove the screws eventually.
>
> How far apart to mount toe/heel bindings depends on the range of binding
> heel adjustment (usually center the heel in its track, unless you have
> special requirements) and pre-load travel distance requirements. Then
> you just center-line the bindings, drill (and tap, if there's a metal
> top-skin on the ski,) without punching through the base, but deep enough
> the screw doesn't dimple the base, lube with wood glue, and screw down
> to torque specs. Mount the second ski identical to the first.
>
> Then, of course, you adjust to boots for proper pre-load, set the
> release to DIN standards, and fully test both release torque and
> function, discarding the bindings if they fall out of spec bounds.
>
>