Honest snow reports for Keystone and Breck

[H. R. Bob Hofmann]

I'm hoping to get to Breck and Keystone the end of next week for about
9 days of skiing, first use of this seasons 3-mountain pass. The
Keystone and Breck web sites are pitiful in their non-descriptions of
amount of terrain and lifts that are open. I sent them (Vail Resorts)
a nasty gram complaining about this, but that won't help me get
accurate info in the meantime. Does anyone have a Chester
Bullock-like report on Breck and/or Keystone conditions. Vail Resorts
should take lessons from the A-basin web site.

H. R.(Bob) Hofmann

[Monique Y. Herman]

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 at 16:31 GMT, H. R. Bob Hofmann penned:
> I'm hoping to get to Breck and Keystone the end of next week for about
> 9 days of skiing, first use of this seasons 3-mountain pass. The
> Keystone and Breck web sites are pitiful in their non-descriptions of
> amount of terrain and lifts that are open. I sent them (Vail Resorts)
> a nasty gram complaining about this, but that won't help me get
> accurate info in the meantime. Does anyone have a Chester
> Bullock-like report on Breck and/or Keystone conditions. Vail Resorts
> should take lessons from the A-basin web site.
>
> H. R.(Bob) Hofmann
>

I made the same complaint by email and also in person yesterday at
Keystone. I was told that they're working on it, and that I wasn't the
first person to point them to the A-Basin website.

Anyway, Keystone yesterday. I'd never been to Keystone before, and my
previous two ski days this season have been at A-Basin, so those are the
grains of salt with which to take my report.

Keystone has some greens and blues open; I didn't ask about how many
greens were open, but I believe they said that Peru lift was open and
servicing greens.

Summit Express, the first lift from the huge parking lot (afaict),
serviced three blues and a green. The green was Schoolmarm and leads to
the Montezuma lift. Two blues, Flying Dutchman and Spring Dipper, were
packed powder, developing moguls along the right side throughout the
day. I believe they opened up Bachelor just yesterday, so it was
fluffy, with treetops, bark, and loose rocks with which to contend. To
be honest, I don't think I'd ever skied anything quite like that, since
this is the first year I've ever gone anywhere early-season.

A lot of blue runs looked like they were on the verge of being opened.

My fiance and I *both* got chunks torn out of our new skis. That would
probably qualify as "our own damn fault for taking new skis
early-season." It wasn't just Bachelor; there seemed to be a lot more
rocks lurking in wait at Keystone than at A-Basin. Okay, maybe they're
not chunks, but my brand-new skis' bases now look worse than those of my
five year old pair ...

My only real complaint was River Run, the run you have to take to get to
the base chairlift. It's icy, somewhat steep, and, as it's the only
game in town right now to *get* to that lift and the base area, it is
absolutely covered in people, many of whom are prone to falling. It's a
mess. Apparently, it's not unusual for that run to get icy, but the
sheer volume of people who have to use it right now is making it worse
than usual. Too many people always make me nervous; too many people
skidding out on ice make me worry about being able to stop in time. My
fiance, who's a much stronger skier than I am, didn't find it quite as
disconcerting, but he managed that by bouncing along the very edge of
the trail.

At A-Basin, I was wondering why they haven't installed high-speed quads;
at Keystone, I see why. Sure, at A-Basin, you stand in line at the
lift, but once you get to the top, you have room to maneuver. At
Keystone, there are no lines to speak of, but once you get to the top,
the crowds are a major pain.

--
monique

[Let Mikey Ski It!]

H. R. Bob Hofmann > wrote:
>I'm hoping to get to Breck and Keystone the end of next week for about
>9 days of skiing, first use of this seasons 3-mountain pass. The
>Keystone and Breck web sites are pitiful in their non-descriptions of
>amount of terrain and lifts that are open. I sent them (Vail Resorts)
>a nasty gram complaining about this, but that won't help me get
>accurate info in the meantime. Does anyone have a Chester
>Bullock-like report on Breck and/or Keystone conditions. Vail Resorts
> should take lessons from the A-basin web site.

As of last Thursday and Friday, Breck had the Peak 9 lifts open, only. I
heard that Peak 8 was to open something like the 13th. Where they have made
snow, the coverage is 100% but gets scraped to icy spots in just a couple
of hours. Pretty dang crowded, too. Hit it early and fast.

Mike...

--
Littleton, Colorado (reply to msaemisch at yahoo dot com)
See my ski photography at: http://PowderDay.us
Carpe powder-diem

[snoig]

"Let Mikey Ski It!" > wrote in message >...
> H. R. Bob Hofmann > wrote:
> >I'm hoping to get to Breck and Keystone the end of next week for about
> >9 days of skiing, first use of this seasons 3-mountain pass. The
> >Keystone and Breck web sites are pitiful in their non-descriptions of
> >amount of terrain and lifts that are open. I sent them (Vail Resorts)
> >a nasty gram complaining about this, but that won't help me get
> >accurate info in the meantime. Does anyone have a Chester
> >Bullock-like report on Breck and/or Keystone conditions. Vail Resorts
> > should take lessons from the A-basin web site.
>
> As of last Thursday and Friday, Breck had the Peak 9 lifts open, only. I
> heard that Peak 8 was to open something like the 13th. Where they have made
> snow, the coverage is 100% but gets scraped to icy spots in just a couple
> of hours. Pretty dang crowded, too. Hit it early and fast.
>
> Mike...

I talked to a patroler on Thursday and asked about them opening trails
and he said they are not going to open anything else until the 15th.
Don't know how true that is but it certinaly looks like Peak 8 and 10
are ready to go. I've talked to a couple of people who have hiked up
and skied Peak 10 and had some thin spots on the main run but the
snowcats could take care of it. Spitfire and Cosair are both ok on
the west half of the trail but rocky on the other half. I think their
decisions on when to open Peak 8 and 10 are more monetary than
conditions.

snoig

[snoig]

(H. R. Bob Hofmann) wrote in message >...
> I'm hoping to get to Breck and Keystone the end of next week for about
> 9 days of skiing, first use of this seasons 3-mountain pass. The
> Keystone and Breck web sites are pitiful in their non-descriptions of
> amount of terrain and lifts that are open. I sent them (Vail Resorts)
> a nasty gram complaining about this, but that won't help me get
> accurate info in the meantime. Does anyone have a Chester
> Bullock-like report on Breck and/or Keystone conditions. Vail Resorts
> should take lessons from the A-basin web site.
>
> H. R.(Bob) Hofmann

Well, conditions are fairly mediocre. We're supposed to get some snow
in the next day or two so check back after that. I think Breck and
Keystone are delibrately keeping terrian closed to get Front Rangers
to go to Vail where there is more terrian open with more snow.

snoig

[David Leach]

(H. R. Bob Hofmann) wrote in message >...
>
> I blasted both web sites again today when I called their 800 number.
> If you want to give them some grief, the phone number for all of Vail
> resorts is 1-800-842-8062. I think you have to wait for prompt 6 to
> speak to a human. Tell them their web sites for Breck and Keystone
> need to give open trail and lift information, and for Keystone, to put
> up a simple trail map like the one that is on the Breck web site.
> Maybe if they get enough complaints they will do something before
> closing next Spring.
>
Don't know if you've seen this Keystone site. It's hidden under the
'3 mountain' link. I far prefer it to the interactive maps that many
of the resorts have gone to.

http://keystone.snow.com/info/trailmaps.asp

David

[danko]

(snoig) wrote in message >...
> (H. R. Bob Hofmann) wrote in message >...
> > I'm hoping to get to Breck and Keystone the end of next week for about
> > 9 days of skiing, first use of this seasons 3-mountain pass. The
> > Keystone and Breck web sites are pitiful in their non-descriptions of
> > amount of terrain and lifts that are open. I sent them (Vail Resorts)
> > a nasty gram complaining about this, but that won't help me get
> > accurate info in the meantime. Does anyone have a Chester
> > Bullock-like report on Breck and/or Keystone conditions. Vail Resorts
> > should take lessons from the A-basin web site.
> >
> > H. R.(Bob) Hofmann
>
> Well, conditions are fairly mediocre. We're supposed to get some snow
> in the next day or two so check back after that. I think Breck and
> Keystone are delibrately keeping terrian closed to get Front Rangers
> to go to Vail where there is more terrian open with more snow.
>
> snoig



Just got back from Breck yesterday. I'll second the mediocre
conditions. Peaks 8 and 9 were somewhat open. 7 and 10 had no
lifts/runs open. When we left there were ~10 lifts open. On 8 & 9
most of the green, and a good portion of the blue runs were open.
Only one blue-black run was open that we found and I could not find a
single open black. Snow condition was good, but thin. Foliage was
showing through in many spots. About half the open trails were being
groomed daily. A number of the blue runs (briar rose for example) had
some bumps where I didn't remember bumps from previous trips. This
might be becuase of the lack of regular bump/advanced runs. My wife
and I spent three days skiing and hit every open run multiple times.
Temps were around 20 degree highs each day. Not bad but it was pretty
windy at the tops. Crowds were not bad dispite the limited amount of
open terrain. Lift lines at peak 8 were much worse than 9. I was
pretty bummed about the lack of advanced terrain open, and was iching
to try the new blue runs at the base of peak 7. They were not open
however.

-danko

[H. R. Bob Hofmann]

(David Leach) wrote in message >...
> (H. R. Bob Hofmann) wrote in message >...
> >
> > I blasted both web sites again today when I called their 800 number.
> > If you want to give them some grief, the phone number for all of Vail
> > resorts is 1-800-842-8062. I think you have to wait for prompt 6 to
> > speak to a human. Tell them their web sites for Breck and Keystone
> > need to give open trail and lift information, and for Keystone, to put
> > up a simple trail map like the one that is on the Breck web site.
> > Maybe if they get enough complaints they will do something before
> > closing next Spring.
> >
> Don't know if you've seen this Keystone site. It's hidden under the
> '3 mountain' link. I far prefer it to the interactive maps that many
> of the resorts have gone to.
>
> http://keystone.snow.com/info/trailmaps.asp
>
> David

David - Thanx - Even the Keystone/Vail Resorts PR folks don't seem to
know about that site and the availability of the non-interactive map.
Shows what happens when a place gets too big.

Bob Hofmann

[Monique Y. Herman]

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 at 17:05 GMT, danko penned:
>
> Just got back from Breck yesterday. I'll second the mediocre
> conditions. Peaks 8 and 9 were somewhat open. 7 and 10 had no
> lifts/runs open. When we left there were ~10 lifts open. On 8 & 9
> most of the green, and a good portion of the blue runs were open.
> Only one blue-black run was open that we found and I could not find a
> single open black. Snow condition was good, but thin. Foliage was
> showing through in many spots. About half the open trails were being
> groomed daily. A number of the blue runs (briar rose for example) had
> some bumps where I didn't remember bumps from previous trips. This
> might be becuase of the lack of regular bump/advanced runs. My wife
> and I spent three days skiing and hit every open run multiple times.
> Temps were around 20 degree highs each day. Not bad but it was pretty
> windy at the tops. Crowds were not bad dispite the limited amount of
> open terrain. Lift lines at peak 8 were much worse than 9. I was
> pretty bummed about the lack of advanced terrain open, and was iching
> to try the new blue runs at the base of peak 7. They were not open
> however.
>
> -danko
>

Huh. I skied down Callie's Corner?, which is a short black, yesterday.
It had a warning sign about exposed terrain but was open, with better
snow than just about any other run. There was one tiny brown spot, but
the rest was fluffy, and since it had a warning sign, it was empty.
Yum!

We took a lift over what looked like a nice little jump park, too. I
didn't check it out, but that seems like it might have provided a little
zest.


Briar Rose sucked yesterday. The moguls didn't upset me, but I hit a
rock just about every other turn.

My s.o. saw a sign at Breck that greens and blues are groomed daily,
which he took to mean that blue-blacks are "blue steepness but not
necessarily groomed." Certainly the blue-blacks did not seem very
challenging from a steepness perspective. Anyone have thoughts on that?
--
monique

[Chester Bullock]

danko wrote:

> (snoig) wrote in message >...
>>Well, conditions are fairly mediocre. We're supposed to get some snow
>>in the next day or two so check back after that. I think Breck and
>>Keystone are delibrately keeping terrian closed to get Front Rangers
>>to go to Vail where there is more terrian open with more snow.
>>
> Just got back from Breck yesterday. I'll second the mediocre
> conditions. Peaks 8 and 9 were somewhat open. 7 and 10 had no
> lifts/runs open. When we left there were ~10 lifts open. On 8 & 9
> most of the green, and a good portion of the blue runs were open.

Given the limited amount of snow this year so far, they are saving the
other trails for the Xmas crowds. Have to show them a good product you
know, so they might come back next year. Speaking of which, good
article in yesterday's Denver Post about why Colorado ski visits are
down, and how it could be worse without season pass wars.
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E33%257E1828081,00.html?search=filter

--
Chester Bullock,
Ethical, custom website hosting, design and programming
Tenxible Solutions, http://www.tenxible.com
Web Based Autoresponder and DRIP system, http://www.toolsre.com
AIM: tenxible YahooIM: ccb247

[lal_truckee]

Chester Bullock wrote:
> Speaking of which, good
> article in yesterday's Denver Post about why Colorado ski visits are
> down, and how it could be worse without season pass wars.
> http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E33%257E1828081,00.html?search=filter

What it doesn't say is that Colorado deliberately screwed themselves by
approving all the hocus-pocus phony stuff around their destination
resorts; once you re-define skiing as a theme park where skiing is only
incidental, which they did, there's really no difference where you go.
All the "Destinations" offer the same crappy "good dining" and sleigh
rides and entertainment, so go where you want. If they would have
focused on skiing, they might have remained the place to go for all
those winter vacationers.

[Chester Bullock]

lal_truckee wrote:

> Chester Bullock wrote:
>
>> Speaking of which, good article in yesterday's Denver Post about why
>> Colorado ski visits are down, and how it could be worse without season
>> pass wars.
>> http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E33%257E1828081,00.html?search=filter
>
>
>
> What it doesn't say is that Colorado deliberately screwed themselves by
> approving all the hocus-pocus phony stuff around their destination
> resorts; once you re-define skiing as a theme park where skiing is only
> incidental, which they did, there's really no difference where you go.
> All the "Destinations" offer the same crappy "good dining" and sleigh
> rides and entertainment, so go where you want. If they would have
> focused on skiing, they might have remained the place to go for all
> those winter vacationers.

I think that all the other stuff they added brought more people. Which
in turn became part of the problem. More people != quality. Silverton
is proving you can focus on the ski experience and make a go of it. But
it will take several years for other places to figure this one out.
Especially the publicly traded places, which are relying on real estate
sales to boost numbers.

--
Chester Bullock,
Ethical, custom website hosting, design and programming
Tenxible Solutions, http://www.tenxible.com
Web Based Autoresponder and DRIP system, http://www.toolsre.com
AIM: tenxible YahooIM: ccb247

[Monique Y. Herman]

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 at 19:02 GMT, lal_truckee penned:
> Chester Bullock wrote:
>> Speaking of which, good article in yesterday's Denver Post about why
>> Colorado ski visits are down, and how it could be worse without
>> season pass wars.
>> http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E33%257E1828081,00.html?search=filter
>
> What it doesn't say is that Colorado deliberately screwed themselves
> by approving all the hocus-pocus phony stuff around their destination
> resorts; once you re-define skiing as a theme park where skiing is
> only incidental, which they did, there's really no difference where
> you go. All the "Destinations" offer the same crappy "good dining"
> and sleigh rides and entertainment, so go where you want. If they
> would have focused on skiing, they might have remained the place to go
> for all those winter vacationers.
>

Speaking of "good dining," I'm jonesing for the mac n cheese at A-Basin.

I never understood all this resort hoopla. I'm there for the snow. If
I've done it right, I'm too tired to go to a bar, dress up for a fancy
meal, etc. Just crash early so that I'm ready for the next day ...

Pretty much why I have finally dropped my Ski Magazine subscription.
There's too much fluff and not enough stuff. I used to enjoy the
pictures when I lived nowhere near any decent skiing, but now it's just
kind of silly.


--
monique

[Sam Seiber]

Chester Bullock wrote:

> I think that all the other stuff they added brought more people. Which
> in turn became part of the problem. More people != quality. Silverton
> is proving you can focus on the ski experience and make a go of it. But
> it will take several years for other places to figure this one out.
> Especially the publicly traded places, which are relying on real estate
> sales to boost numbers.

Chester:
Also in yesterdays "Post" was the I-70 write up. It wouldn't suprise
me that many out of state visitors get a little sick of the I-70
parking lot. I guess it wouldn't hurt if a few out of staters
would drop their opinion here re: I-70.

Sam "I ski Loveland" Seiber

[Chester Bullock]

Sam Seiber wrote:

> Chester Bullock wrote:
>
>
>>I think that all the other stuff they added brought more people. Which
>>in turn became part of the problem. More people != quality. Silverton
>>is proving you can focus on the ski experience and make a go of it. But
>>it will take several years for other places to figure this one out.
>>Especially the publicly traded places, which are relying on real estate
>>sales to boost numbers.
>
>
> Chester:
> Also in yesterdays "Post" was the I-70 write up. It wouldn't suprise
> me that many out of state visitors get a little sick of the I-70
> parking lot. I guess it wouldn't hurt if a few out of staters
> would drop their opinion here re: I-70.
>
> Sam "I ski Loveland" Seiber
>

I am not sure to what degree out-of-staters are impacted by the parking
lot that is I-70. I'd be curious to find that one out. Sadly, we are
many, many years away from a solution to that problem.

--
Chester Bullock,
Ethical, custom website hosting, design and programming
Tenxible Solutions, http://www.tenxible.com
Web Based Autoresponder and DRIP system, http://www.toolsre.com
AIM: tenxible YahooIM: ccb247

[Monique Y. Herman]

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 at 20:06 GMT, Sam Seiber penned:
>
> Chester: Also in yesterdays "Post" was the I-70 write up. It wouldn't
> suprise me that many out of state visitors get a little sick of the
> I-70 parking lot. I guess it wouldn't hurt if a few out of staters
> would drop their opinion here re: I-70.
>

Do you have to be from out of state to hate I-70 gridlock?

--
monique

[danko]

"Monique Y. Herman" > wrote in message >...
> On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 at 17:05 GMT, danko penned:
> >
> > Just got back from Breck yesterday. I'll second the mediocre
> > conditions. Peaks 8 and 9 were somewhat open. 7 and 10 had no
> > lifts/runs open. When we left there were ~10 lifts open. On 8 & 9
> > most of the green, and a good portion of the blue runs were open.
> > Only one blue-black run was open that we found and I could not find a
> > single open black. Snow condition was good, but thin. Foliage was
> > showing through in many spots. About half the open trails were being
> > groomed daily. A number of the blue runs (briar rose for example) had
> > some bumps where I didn't remember bumps from previous trips. This
> > might be becuase of the lack of regular bump/advanced runs. My wife
> > and I spent three days skiing and hit every open run multiple times.
> > Temps were around 20 degree highs each day. Not bad but it was pretty
> > windy at the tops. Crowds were not bad dispite the limited amount of
> > open terrain. Lift lines at peak 8 were much worse than 9. I was
> > pretty bummed about the lack of advanced terrain open, and was iching
> > to try the new blue runs at the base of peak 7. They were not open
> > however.
> >
> > -danko
> >
>
> Huh. I skied down Callie's Corner?, which is a short black, yesterday.
> It had a warning sign about exposed terrain but was open, with better
> snow than just about any other run. There was one tiny brown spot, but
> the rest was fluffy, and since it had a warning sign, it was empty.
> Yum!
>
> We took a lift over what looked like a nice little jump park, too. I
> didn't check it out, but that seems like it might have provided a little
> zest.
>
>
> Briar Rose sucked yesterday. The moguls didn't upset me, but I hit a
> rock just about every other turn.
>
> My s.o. saw a sign at Breck that greens and blues are groomed daily,
> which he took to mean that blue-blacks are "blue steepness but not
> necessarily groomed." Certainly the blue-blacks did not seem very
> challenging from a steepness perspective. Anyone have thoughts on that?


I must have missed Callie's... or it opened after we left (Saturday
noon'ish). Either way I'm a little bummed I missed it. I neglected
to mention the terrain park as it was in use by the Vans snowboard
competition and was unaccessible to "normal" skiiers. As for the
blue-black runs, I'm not sure how they grade them. On previous trips
to Breck I've hit the blue-black runs on peak 10. They were steeper
than the other blue runs on 8 and 9, but did not necessarily have
bumps. If I remember correctly they were also pretty much all groomed
except for a strip along the side. Nice runs just to open up on for
straight downhill speed. Anyway, this is probably the last time we
go early season. It is just too much of a dice roll when it comes to
snow condition to make up for the cheaper costs.

-danko

[Monique Y. Herman]

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 at 02:10 GMT, danko penned:
>
> Anyway, this is probably the last time we go early season. It is just
> too much of a dice roll when it comes to snow condition to make up for
> the cheaper costs.

I hear ya. I never scheduled early *or* late season skiing when I lived
in VA -- too much risk. The only reason I'm doing it this year is
because I finally live near the mountains and have a Colorado Pass, so
it's "free."

--
monique

[snoig]

(danko) wrote in message
> I must have missed Callie's... or it opened after we left (Saturday
> noon'ish). Either way I'm a little bummed I missed it. I neglected
> to mention the terrain park as it was in use by the Vans snowboard
> competition and was unaccessible to "normal" skiiers. As for the
> blue-black runs, I'm not sure how they grade them. On previous trips
> to Breck I've hit the blue-black runs on peak 10. They were steeper
> than the other blue runs on 8 and 9, but did not necessarily have
> bumps. If I remember correctly they were also pretty much all groomed
> except for a strip along the side. Nice runs just to open up on for
> straight downhill speed. Anyway, this is probably the last time we
> go early season. It is just too much of a dice roll when it comes to
> snow condition to make up for the cheaper costs.
>
> -danko

Well, I wrote the original post about bad conditions about two weeks
ago. Since then conditions have improved quite a bit with one 8"
storm and one 4" storm and other trace amounts. As far as advanced
terrian goes, there was plenty open on and off over the three days you
were there but you just had to keep a watch on how and when to access
it. Patrol has had quite a bit open on a limited basis. Yesterday I
skied the Mine Crotch trees, Mineshaft, Pscyopath trees and Pscyopath
Gully. Devils Crotch was also open. All pretty challenging terrian.
While you were here, I skied Cimmeron, Corsair and The Burn.

Since we are starting to get snow, patrol is opening up a bunch of
those trails on a limited basis (a couple of hours a day) just to get
them compacted. They usually do it during the week since they already
have a full plate on the weekends.

Vail Resorts is trying to save money now since they lost $8.5 million
last season. The snow is here, they just haven't staffed up yet. You
probably would have been better off skiing at Vail while you were here
since they have had more snow and have about 2 or 3 times the terrian
open.

As far as the lower Peak 8 black runs go, I think they label them that
way for the tourists. They are pretty much un-groomed blue runs but
it does give all the flatlanders an ego boost to say that they skied a
black run. Keeps them coming back. Peak 10 and 6 chair have the real
single black runs.
snoig