Is there a skill level system?

[Wai Chan]

This may be a trivial question for some of you -- particularly the
instructors and competitors... Is there a unified system to designate
one's skill level in alpine skiing? I notice that some of the resorts use
the Levels 1 through 10 system with 10 being the most expert. Is that the
standard?


--------------------------------------------

W R Chan from Upstate NY
(to respond, remove ### from email address)

* I have no stinking sig *

[Jay Pique]

On 20 Nov 2003 03:13:49 -0500, Wai Chan >
wrote:

>This may be a trivial question for some of you -- particularly the
>instructors and competitors... Is there a unified system to designate
>one's skill level in alpine skiing? I notice that some of the resorts use
>the Levels 1 through 10 system with 10 being the most expert. Is that the
>standard?

Yes - but I ski at "11".

JP

[mark]

PSIA (Professional Ski Instructors of America) uses 1 through 9, and a lot
of resorts have adopted this system for their ski schools. Useful if you're
traking lessons, but otherwise don't worry about numbers, just ski and have
fun.
--
mark
"Wai Chan" > wrote in message
. 1.24...
> This may be a trivial question for some of you -- particularly the
> instructors and competitors... Is there a unified system to designate
> one's skill level in alpine skiing? I notice that some of the resorts use
> the Levels 1 through 10 system with 10 being the most expert. Is that the
> standard?
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
> W R Chan from Upstate NY
> (to respond, remove ### from email address)
>
> * I have no stinking sig *

[Walt]

Jay Pique wrote:
>
> On 20 Nov 2003 03:13:49 -0500, Wai Chan >
> wrote:
>
> >This may be a trivial question for some of you -- particularly the
> >instructors and competitors... Is there a unified system to designate
> >one's skill level in alpine skiing? I notice that some of the resorts use
> >the Levels 1 through 10 system with 10 being the most expert. Is that the
> >standard?
>
> Yes - but I ski at "11".

Isn't it all tracked out by then?

--
//-Walt
//
// The Volkl Conspiracy

[foot2foot]

"Wai Chan" > wrote in message
. 1.24...
> This may be a trivial question for some of you -- particularly the
> instructors and competitors... Is there a unified system to designate
> one's skill level in alpine skiing? I notice that some of the resorts use
> the Levels 1 through 10 system with 10 being the most expert. Is that the
> standard?
>

Yes it is, but it's a bit subjective at best.
In the US at least.

Why do you ask?

[Wai Chan]

"foot2foot" > wrote in
:
>> I notice that some of
>> the resorts use the Levels 1 through 10 system with 10 being the most
>> expert. Is that the standard?
>>
> Yes it is, but it's a bit subjective at best.
> In the US at least.
Be that as it may. It's still more precise than the green/blue/black
system.

> Why do you ask?
More for curiosity than anything else. Also, when asked about level of
ability, it would be nice to be able to describe it more definitively than
say "high blue at this resort and low black at another".



--------------------------------------------

W R Chan from Upstate NY
(to respond, remove ### from email address)

* I have no stinking sig *

[Brian Sniatkowski]

I found this:

Level One

Congratulations! Your about to participate in an exciting and beautiful
sport!

You should definitely read before you go. This is the most important
time to get into a lesson. Friends and loved ones may mean well but
invariably get you into dangerous situations. A half or full day lesson
will equip you with the basic skills and concepts you need to enjoy
skiing. This small investment of time and money will be an investment
for life!

Level Two

You are able to stop on green runs using the wedge or "snowplow". You
may be able to make some direction change but linked turns are yet to come.

Level Three

You are able to stop and link wedge turns on green runs comfortably.

Level Four

You are relying more on turn shape than wedge size to slow you down.
Your wedge is getting smaller and by the end of the turn your skis are
running parallel. This level represents a major milestone. Mastery of
level four concepts prepare the student for the transition from green
runs to blue ones!

Level Five

You are using similar wedge-match turning mechanics to the level four
skier. The primary difference is that you are able to use the technique
comfortably on blue runs.

Level Six

Your wedge (or stem) is mostly gone and you are making open parallel
turns on blue runs.

Level Seven

You are able to change turn radius and duration comfortably on blue
runs. Pole plants are being used to time turns. Blue-black and black
diamond runs are starting to look skiable.

Level Eight

You are comfortable on blue-black terrain. You can ski in the fall line
on easier moguls.

Level Nine

You can ski black diamond bumps, steeps and varied snow conditions
comfortably. Sadly, not even all instructors are strong level nine skiers.

Wai Chan wrote:

> This may be a trivial question for some of you -- particularly the
> instructors and competitors... Is there a unified system to designate
> one's skill level in alpine skiing? I notice that some of the resorts use
> the Levels 1 through 10 system with 10 being the most expert. Is that the
> standard?
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
> W R Chan from Upstate NY
> (to respond, remove ### from email address)
>
> * I have no stinking sig *

[foot2foot]

"Wai Chan" > wrote in message
. 1.24...
> "foot2foot" > wrote in
> :
> >> I notice that some of
> >> the resorts use the Levels 1 through 10 system with 10 being the most
> >> expert. Is that the standard?
> >>
> > Yes it is, but it's a bit subjective at best.
> > In the US at least.
> Be that as it may. It's still more precise than the green/blue/black
> system.
>
> > Why do you ask?
> More for curiosity than anything else. Also, when asked about level of
> ability, it would be nice to be able to describe it more definitively than
> say "high blue at this resort and low black at another".

Thanks for the reply to my reply!

Perhaps I could put it this way. The first levels,
something around one through six can be accomplished
in two hours of instruction. The big step is moving
from the "stem" of the outside ski, or the use of a
wedge to turn, or to begin a turn, to a turn in which skis
remain parallel start to finish. A "level 6" skier can do
this, though it may not look all that pretty. Then comes
the question, *where* can he/she do it? On the bunny
hill, then the turn falls apart as the skier tries a steeper
slope? This isn't addressed in the "levels" concept.

The problem, is, a wedge does not work well on
anything but a very gentle slope. A good solution is
to simply not spend hardly any time at all in the wedge
as the student learns.

Not so long ago, the levels referred to at least one
lesson or more per level. This meant perhaps a whole
year before a student was even introduced to an attempt
at parallel skiing. The first two to four hours were spent
learning to stand and step on the skis, and how to fall.
No wonder that 90 some percent of the first time skiers
never returned.

The real importance is, not how the skier looks, but will
the turn *work* on intermediate slopes, no matter how
"ugly" it might be to the purist instructor.

You've brought up a highly significant point, though.
Green black and blue mean next to nothing. One resort's
black is another's blue. Many "double diamond" slopes
are far from expert only difficulty. The slopes should
actually be rated in terms of the degree of inclination of
the slope. This would not be hard to do, and would be
of tremendous use to the new, intermediate or
experienced skier. At present, there really is no way
to realistically assess a slope for your own purposes
(do I really want to take my wife down this?) until you
go down it yourself.

The skier should be greeted at the top of the trail with
the name of the trail, a color designation if desired, and
a real *number* like "25 degrees" that refers to the
steepest part of that trail. The skier could then relate
their own abilities to the numbers. "By the end of the
year I want to go down a 30 degree trail"."My wife can
go down a 25 degree with no problem".

[Walt]

foot2foot wrote:
>
> Perhaps I could put it this way. The first levels,
> something around one through six can be accomplished
> in two hours of instruction.

Never-ever to open parallel in two hours? Are you nuts?

Maybe at the school for the naturally gifted athlete. But the average
adult is not going to go from "this is a ski" to open parallel on blue
slopes in two hours. No matter how much time they've spent jumping over
doormats.


BTW, the Level 1 through 9 scale is intended as a way to sort students
into group lessons and has limited applicability to any other purpose.
In particular, I wouldn't use it to rate what terrain the person can (or
should) ski.

--
//-Walt
//
// The Volkl Conspiracy

[Alan Baker]

In article >,
Walt > wrote:

> foot2foot wrote:
> >
> > Perhaps I could put it this way. The first levels,
> > something around one through six can be accomplished
> > in two hours of instruction.
>
> Never-ever to open parallel in two hours? Are you nuts?
>
> Maybe at the school for the naturally gifted athlete. But the average
> adult is not going to go from "this is a ski" to open parallel on blue
> slopes in two hours. No matter how much time they've spent jumping over
> doormats.

I'm not so sure I agree.

I've had some experience teaching absolute beginners and I think it
might be possible in more than a few cases.

I think that 4 hours would do it for lot of people.

>
>
> BTW, the Level 1 through 9 scale is intended as a way to sort students
> into group lessons and has limited applicability to any other purpose.
> In particular, I wouldn't use it to rate what terrain the person can (or
> should) ski.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

[foot2foot]

"Walt" > wrote in message >
> Never-ever to open parallel in two hours? Are you nuts?
>

Nope. I do it all the time, and it's not me, it's the system.
Any given class, half of the students will be in a rough
parallel at the end of two hours. The other half will need
more work in particular areas. That first half will be able
to take their turn up on the blues *and learn* to ski
the blues capably, usually after another hour to two
hours they'll be able to. Some go right out and ski blacks.

There are only two ways to get this kind of result that
I know of. One is schrittbogen, or related, the other is
short skis. like 120's. In the end though, you must make
a big adjustment to long skis anyway.

Many instructors accomplish this result, but it's due to
short skis or some variation of schrittbogen. Harb's ski
instruction system is a variation of schrittbogen.

Half of any given class, rough parallel in two hours.
A turn that will work on the blues. Consistently, it
happens.

Parallel is defined by the lack of use of the big toe
edge of the inside ski. In other words, the wedge is
gone.

[Walt]

foot2foot wrote:
>
> "Walt" > wrote in message >

> > Never-ever to open parallel in two hours? Are you nuts?
> >

> Nope. I do it all the time, and it's not me, it's the system.

You don't sell Amway by any chance, do you?


--
//-Walt
//
// There is no system